Quote from AK Forty Seven:
...Madison should have been more specific in the actual Constitution on the meaning of general welfare rather then speeches afterward but then it might not have been passed
You mean like, include a list? oh right, he DID.
Quote from AK Forty Seven:
2.I didn't answer because its hypothetical and the chances of it happening are so low its not worth debating imo
I didn't imply it was likely, I asked whether or not it would be Constitutional, it's a simple question.
3.Many consider the guys I mentioned the founders but if you consider everyone that voted to ratify the Constitution founders I understand that many do.All the founders did not agree on everything,there was much compromise in getting the constitution passed and Madison opinions were not the same as everyone who voted to ratify the constitution.The fact that Madison went in detail about his feelings on the general welfare clause after it was ratified but not put it in the constitution itself suggest he knew he wouldn't have the votes if he did imo.
Hamilton did exactly the same thing, his 'interpretation' didn't appear until 1791..
after ratification and the adoption of The Bill of Rights. The glaring, irreconcilable difference between the two, is hamilton is ignoring not only the rest of the
same section that contains the the two words - general welfare, but the purpose of Constitution, which was establishing a defined federal government. Can it get any more selective than that? There were others besides hamilton who viewed the general welfare clause as a power to do anything, however when they ratified the document, they agreed to be bound by the rules it contains. In the words of Madison, also from 1791: "No argument could be drawn from the terms "common defence, and general welfare." The power as to these general purposes, was limited to acts laying taxes for them; and the general purposes themselves were limited and explained by the particular enumeration subjoined. To understand these terms in any sense, that would justify the power in question, would give to Congress an unlimited power; would render nugatory the enumeration of particular powers; would supercede all the powers reserved to the state governments. These terms are copied from the articles of confederation; had it ever been pretended, that they were to be understood otherwise than as here explained?"
I disagree that that general welfare clause is not open to interpretation.You see it the way you want to see it and ignore not only citizens but Presidents,Congressmen and Supreme court Justices that see it differently from you.
You're doing precisely what you are accusing me of.
You have pointed out Madison's opinion of the general welfare clause but Alexander Hamilton had a different interpretation
"The terms 'general Welfare' were doubtless intended to signify more than was expressed or imported in those which Preceded; otherwise numerous exigencies incident to the affairs of a Nation would have been left without a provision. The phrase is as comprehensive as any that could have been used; because it was not fit that the constitutional authority of the Union, to appropriate its revenues shou'd have been restricted within narrower limits than the 'General Welfare' and because this necessarily embraces a vast variety of particulars, which are susceptible neither of specification nor of definition."-Alexander Hamilton
The two primary authors of The Federalist set forth two separate, conflicting interpretations(of the general welfare clause):
James Madison advocated for the ratification of the Constitution in The Federalist and at the Virginia ratifying convention upon a narrow construction of the clause, asserting that spending must be at least tangentially tied to one of the other specifically enumerated powers, such as regulating interstate or foreign commerce, or providing for the military, as the General Welfare Clause is not a specific grant of power, but a statement of purpose qualifying the power to tax.
Alexander Hamilton, argued for a broad interpretation which viewed spending as an enumerated power Congress could exercise independently to benefit the general welfare, such as to assist national needs in agriculture or education, provided that the spending is general in nature and does not favor any specific section of the country over any other.
And they can't both be right. Another point, if the words 'general welfare' alone grant the fed govt authority to do whatever they want, then what is the purpose of the 10th Amendment "The
powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Which clearly states that the fed govt has been granted
specific powers not unlimited power to do what they want. And the authority they haven't been given belongs to the States, or the people.
i would quote the rest of your posts but they are mostly cut and pasted from the wiki article on Hamilton. So I'll just address hamilton. He proposed at the Convention that elected officials like the President and Senators, serve for life. He didn't get his way on the Constitution, Madison/Jefferson did. Hamilton knew the rules but wasn't satisfied with them, which is why he changed his mind (twisted the meaning) AFTER the Constitution was ratified, and AFTER he was appointed Treasury Secretary by Washington. How do I know, because in Federalist 83 (1788) Hamilton wrote: "The plan of the convention declares that the power of Congress, or, in other words, of the national legislature, shall extend to certain enumerated cases. This specification of particulars evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd, as well as useless, if a general authority was intended." This was prior to his 'interpretation' of the words 'general welfare' (in 1791) and is a COMPLETE CONTRADICTION.
These actions caused him to be viewed as a monarchist sympathizer by Madison. The
evidence for Madison's argument logically carries more weight than Hamilton's contradictory belief (which is essentially, the two words 'general welfare', mean whatever I say they do, and trump the rest of the Constitution).
Like I said, you're wrong.