Obama in bed with Insurance Co.

Isn't is just so nice to realize that leftists are coming for our money and our property?

I had so much fun a couple of years back. There was this Ameribitch, I really didn't like this one at all.. she had far leftist bumper stickers, she lied in business deals.. so I reversed the lefty shit, I went to legal aid, gave them $20 and said she owed me some money. She actually wound up paying it, that was the joke, it was just easier for her to pay it... meanwhile I observed that nobody liked her that much and neighbors divulged info about some illegal income she had so I screwed that up for her. I might make this my hobby.. I can think about it and laugh at these posters here that are using the government to come after property and savings and all. I think some of them are just trying to avoid the strong feelings that come with being losers. It's really much more of a personal problem than a social problem. People like me, that make their way in life and play the chips wherever they land with no complaints, we don't much give a shit if you guys are losers, ok? Did mama love little brother more than you and make you feel like a loser? Oh my, the government should give you some money..... no really!
 
Quote from Lucrum:

:D

bigarrow has a habit of commenting without having bothered to keep up with what he's commenting on.

It's bigger than that, liberals have to make up their own facts because reality just makes them look stupid.
 
Quote from bigarrow:

My personal policy is very fiscally conservative ...
Your support of obama , obamacare and other stupid ass collectivism once again demonstrates your legendary inept discernment or you just don't know what the fuck the words you use mean.
 
Quote from AK Forty Seven:

...Madison should have been more specific in the actual Constitution on the meaning of general welfare rather then speeches afterward but then it might not have been passed
You mean like, include a list? oh right, he DID.

Quote from AK Forty Seven:

2.I didn't answer because its hypothetical and the chances of it happening are so low its not worth debating imo

I didn't imply it was likely, I asked whether or not it would be Constitutional, it's a simple question.

3.Many consider the guys I mentioned the founders but if you consider everyone that voted to ratify the Constitution founders I understand that many do.All the founders did not agree on everything,there was much compromise in getting the constitution passed and Madison opinions were not the same as everyone who voted to ratify the constitution.The fact that Madison went in detail about his feelings on the general welfare clause after it was ratified but not put it in the constitution itself suggest he knew he wouldn't have the votes if he did imo.

Hamilton did exactly the same thing, his 'interpretation' didn't appear until 1791.. after ratification and the adoption of The Bill of Rights. The glaring, irreconcilable difference between the two, is hamilton is ignoring not only the rest of the same section that contains the the two words - general welfare, but the purpose of Constitution, which was establishing a defined federal government. Can it get any more selective than that? There were others besides hamilton who viewed the general welfare clause as a power to do anything, however when they ratified the document, they agreed to be bound by the rules it contains. In the words of Madison, also from 1791: "No argument could be drawn from the terms "common defence, and general welfare." The power as to these general purposes, was limited to acts laying taxes for them; and the general purposes themselves were limited and explained by the particular enumeration subjoined. To understand these terms in any sense, that would justify the power in question, would give to Congress an unlimited power; would render nugatory the enumeration of particular powers; would supercede all the powers reserved to the state governments. These terms are copied from the articles of confederation; had it ever been pretended, that they were to be understood otherwise than as here explained?"

I disagree that that general welfare clause is not open to interpretation.You see it the way you want to see it and ignore not only citizens but Presidents,Congressmen and Supreme court Justices that see it differently from you.

You're doing precisely what you are accusing me of.

You have pointed out Madison's opinion of the general welfare clause but Alexander Hamilton had a different interpretation




"The terms 'general Welfare' were doubtless intended to signify more than was expressed or imported in those which Preceded; otherwise numerous exigencies incident to the affairs of a Nation would have been left without a provision. The phrase is as comprehensive as any that could have been used; because it was not fit that the constitutional authority of the Union, to appropriate its revenues shou'd have been restricted within narrower limits than the 'General Welfare' and because this necessarily embraces a vast variety of particulars, which are susceptible neither of specification nor of definition."-Alexander Hamilton










The two primary authors of The Federalist set forth two separate, conflicting interpretations(of the general welfare clause):


James Madison advocated for the ratification of the Constitution in The Federalist and at the Virginia ratifying convention upon a narrow construction of the clause, asserting that spending must be at least tangentially tied to one of the other specifically enumerated powers, such as regulating interstate or foreign commerce, or providing for the military, as the General Welfare Clause is not a specific grant of power, but a statement of purpose qualifying the power to tax.



Alexander Hamilton, argued for a broad interpretation which viewed spending as an enumerated power Congress could exercise independently to benefit the general welfare, such as to assist national needs in agriculture or education, provided that the spending is general in nature and does not favor any specific section of the country over any other.

And they can't both be right. Another point, if the words 'general welfare' alone grant the fed govt authority to do whatever they want, then what is the purpose of the 10th Amendment "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Which clearly states that the fed govt has been granted specific powers not unlimited power to do what they want. And the authority they haven't been given belongs to the States, or the people.

i would quote the rest of your posts but they are mostly cut and pasted from the wiki article on Hamilton. So I'll just address hamilton. He proposed at the Convention that elected officials like the President and Senators, serve for life. He didn't get his way on the Constitution, Madison/Jefferson did. Hamilton knew the rules but wasn't satisfied with them, which is why he changed his mind (twisted the meaning) AFTER the Constitution was ratified, and AFTER he was appointed Treasury Secretary by Washington. How do I know, because in Federalist 83 (1788) Hamilton wrote: "The plan of the convention declares that the power of Congress, or, in other words, of the national legislature, shall extend to certain enumerated cases. This specification of particulars evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd, as well as useless, if a general authority was intended." This was prior to his 'interpretation' of the words 'general welfare' (in 1791) and is a COMPLETE CONTRADICTION.

These actions caused him to be viewed as a monarchist sympathizer by Madison. The evidence for Madison's argument logically carries more weight than Hamilton's contradictory belief (which is essentially, the two words 'general welfare', mean whatever I say they do, and trump the rest of the Constitution).

Like I said, you're wrong.
 
Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Your support of obama , obamacare and other stupid ass collectivism once again demonstrates your legendary inept discernment or you just don't know what the fuck the words you use mean.

+1

BA dude really, you must be a fool or think all the rest of us are to say something like that. You are NOT a fiscal conservative if you support the growth of a govt that is 16T dollars in debt. lol.
 
Quote from PiggyBank:

+1

BA dude really, you must be a fool or think all the rest of us are to say something like that. You are NOT a fiscal conservative if you support the growth of a govt that is 16T dollars in debt. lol.
Exactly. Believe it or not I recall thunderpussy/Gayfly/Brass Hole making the same fiscal conservative claim.

Mr. Big government himself.
 
Quote from Lucrum:

Exactly. Believe it or not I recall thunderpussy/Gayfly/Brass Hole making the same fiscal conservative claim.

Mr. Big government himself.

Brasshole did do that, one of the worst arguments in P&R history followed.. where he called mao and stalin etc., right wing. :D
 
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