NYSE Trading -- Is this legal?

if we are talking outside market...same applies.
80.10 * 80.30
Limit order 80.34
shows 80.10 * 80.40
Prints 80.40 20K NYSE 10 seconds after I put the 80.34 out.
Never prints above 80.30 again.
According to you....He has to give me the 80.40????
Am I misunderstanding you????
 
Originally posted by sdtrader
if we are talking outside market...same applies.
80.10 * 80.30
Limit order 80.34
shows 80.10 * 80.40
Prints 80.40 20K NYSE 10 seconds after I put the 80.34 out.
Never prints above 80.30 again.
According to you....He has to give me the 80.40????
Am I misunderstanding you????
More...

I'm assuming that your offering at 80.34? If your offer is in while he's rounding up the shares for the buyer, then yes you will get it. If your offer was in after he already got enough shares for the buyer, and the next trade after 80.4 was 80.25 and lower, then no, you're not entitled to the shares. Cause he didn't have enough to fill you, and the next order was to sell the 80.25. Just because there was a time gap between when you put it in, and when the specialist printed does not entitle you to the print. The specialist pauses a stock at times without actually halting it cause he's deciding the direction of the stock after he prints the buyer for whom he has the shares. So the trade took place already, maybe a few seconds before you offered, the specialist is just late in posting it.

There is a rule somewhere where it gives the specialist x amount of time to post a trade. They use this to get indications to the intent of other traders.

You also no sometimes when he's gonna print when he a stock pauses for longer then he usually does, especially a fast moving stock, and the direction into which he's gonna print, he's only showing 1oo shares on the quote size.
 
Originally posted by calibertrader


I'm assuming that your offering at 80.34? If your offer is in while he's rounding up the shares for the buyer, then yes you will get it. If your offer was in after he already got enough shares for the buyer, and the next trade after 80.4 was 80.25 and lower, then no, you're not entitled to the shares. Cause he didn't have enough to fill you, and the next order was to sell the 80.25. Just because there was a time gap between when you put it in, and when the specialist printed does not entitle you to the print. The specialist pauses a stock at times without actually halting it cause he's deciding the direction of the stock after he prints the buyer for whom he has the shares. So the trade took place already, maybe a few seconds before you offered, the specialist is just late in posting it.

There is a rule somewhere where it gives the specialist x amount of time to post a trade. They use this to get indications to the intent of other traders.

You also no sometimes when he's gonna print when he a stock pauses for longer then he usually does, especially a fast moving stock, and the direction into which he's gonna print, he's only showing 1oo shares on the quote size.
More...

Thanks Caliber.... I KNOW. That was my way of telling Oldtrader he is wrong. But thanks for the explanation anyway. Since I almost exclusively trade IBM I am well aware of all the specialist little games....especially his.
 
Originally posted by sdtrader
if we are talking outside market...same applies.
80.10 * 80.30
Limit order 80.34
shows 80.10 * 80.40
Prints 80.40 20K NYSE 10 seconds after I put the 80.34 out.
Never prints above 80.30 again.
According to you....He has to give me the 80.40????
Am I misunderstanding you????
More...

SDTrader

Maybe you need to re-read my posts.

I have made numerous references to whether your offer has "arrived", whether it's "there".

If your order arrives after he's arranged a trade, but perhaps just hasn't printed it yet, you're too late.

But if you're offer is on the book, and THEN it trades above your limit (on a sale), you're entitled to a fill.

Whether your offer has "arrived" just because you made your offer 10 seconds ago...you and I both know that's not the case.

OldTrader
 
Originally posted by calibertrader
So it is possible like I said, you put your bid in, the specialist already decided to print the seller he had at .39, and had no shares to fill your order, and from that point went up. It doesn't matter that your order was there for 30 seconda, cause he could've decied the other orders fill 15 seconds earlier, and took the 45 seconds to fill the order. A specialist is not required to fill everybody at a price, especially when he already filled all the other shares. Putting a limit order out is like telling him to give you any leftovers. If there are none, you get nothing, sometime's he's nice and gives you part of the order, but he's not obligated to give you any of the order if the stock is not available at that price. So there were no more downticks there, in order to fill your bid. He upticked from there. Now if he had upticked and then downticked to your bid and still no fill for you, then he f***ked you.
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Then I got screwed (which I already know and realize that is what I am dealing with). If you saw my other posts I had a bid out below the current market about 30 seconds ahead of time. I am at 28.42 he is at 28.46/28.5. He opens the spread out to 28.40 and prints several thousand shares. Then he moves the spread to 28.40/28.42 and prints more shares at 28.40. Then he moves his quote to 28.39 by 28.41 and prints more shares at 28.39. Then when he was done there he took it back to 28.46/28.5. Hopefully these are all right seeing as that happened several hours ago. It sucks but it is OK because I realize it is the game. I get price improvement too that makes up for this BS fill. Thanks for your help
 
Originally posted by sdtrader

Oldtrader
To borrow your line....Think about what you just said.
So spread is 80.10 by 80.30.
To get out of my long all I have to do is throw out 80.20 and when he prints above that for a couple times and rips it back down to 80.00 I can just call and say I am "ENTITLED" to the fill. Thanks....I had no idea I was getting so screwed.
Go back and read Tharps response....you have to be on his book for a set amount of time b4 the specialist has to take your order.
If I am wrong ..... please direct me to the proof.
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Sdtrader

If your order is on his book, and the price THEN trades through your limit, you're entitled to a fill. To correct your misimpression, your order does NOT have to be on the book for a particular period of time. It just takes a period of time to get ON the book.

After reading your two posts I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make or why you think I'm "wrong". Obviously your order takes a period of time to get to the book....in that brief interim period there may be some trades that take place that would have filled you if your order was resting on the book. For that matter, your quote system can't print trades simultaneously with their taking place either.

As I mentioned before, in my first post, get time and sales....then you'll KNOW what took place, rather than all of us speculating about it.

My objection was to the contention that the specialist is out to screw you out of your fill by not filling an order that you were entitled to because it traded through your limit while your order rested on the book.

Hopefully this clarifies this for you.

OldTrader
 
I've had that happend to me a lot with some specialists. What sucks most is that if the price keeps going in the direction that's to my favor and I know from prior experience I'm gonna eventually get a fill at the price I put in earlier :( - I can't even cancel the trade and reenter it at a better price. It just freezes there and gives me a bad fill with a "too late to cancel" note a minute later....
Is getting in cancels a universal problem or is it actually a broker-specific problem?
Thanks.
 
Originally posted by OldTrader
...
Bottomline, if your order was there when the print at 39 took place, you're entitled to a fill. ...
More...

You might want to get a copy of the NYSE rule book. The specialist has 2 minutes to fill an order and if it's printing above his buy order when that 2 minutes arrives, he doesn't have to fill it.

It's their game, they make the rules, but they do have to follow them and if they don't, you can call them on it and get restitution. It's all in the book and if you're going to play in their ballfield, you're better off if you know the field rules.
 
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