NYSE Trading -- Is this legal?

[rtharp]

Originally posted by cornholetrading
I am a newer NY trader so I don't know how often this happens, but I can't see how it can be legal. So can I please get some comments on this from some NY traders. How often does this happen, is it legal, what can be done about it, or was it just a "fluke" trade and part of the territory?

Today I was trading GE. I was short right in the morning and had a bid placed out there at 28.42 to get filled to cover the short. The specialist moved his quote to 28.39/28.41. He printed a ton of shares at 28.40 and some more at 28.39 which was the low of the day. However I did not get the fill. Before moving his quote down he was at 28.46/28.50. I had my bid out there maybe 30 seconds before he moved his quote down.

Surgarhilgang

Orders don't have priority if under 2 minutes. You only had 30 seconds which isn't enough.

I need the details of the prints exactly

What you need to do if he goes higher after a ton of different prints is immeadiatley CHANGE YOUR ORDER DO NOT CANCEL IT away from the market. They can only fill live orders.

Call Dot Services ask Joe G. in your office and tell them all the prints. They will usually say stock ahead than you can say fine but what about this print....at 28.39?

Specialist is human and can make mistakes.

Robert

 

[calibertrader]

Originally posted by Threei
I haven't traded NYSE for ages. Reading all the "Listeds only, never NASDAQ" posts was wondering for a while if I really miss something. With these posts stating that this is normal order of things for NYSE I am pretty sure I am trading right market for me. This is impossible situation for NASDAQ. I can't imagine trading with such dependence on single person that could legally, or near legally, fill or ignore your order. Competitory system where all the participants work their orders and once your price level is hit with enough shares you get a sure fill looks so much more appropriate for trading... Well, to each his own, I guess...

Vad

You can't let these posts scare you. For all the negative's on NYSE there alot of positives. There are just as many negatives on NASDAQ as there are with NYSE. For example the spreads tend to be smaller on the NYSE, the screw jobs aren't as bad, you get a better feel for the move cause you don't have one market maker stepping over the other, for example if the specialist doesn't want the buyer or seller to get done, meaning the instituions who's running up or down the stock, he'll protect your stops. Of course there are occassions where he'll come after your stop. But like everything else, you need to learn which specialists do what, and which one's are more criminal then others. It's the same with market makers, some play around and some are serious. And most people that trade NASDAQ learn who to believe and who's trying to suck them in.

 

[cornholetrading]

Originally posted by Threei
I haven't traded NYSE for ages. Reading all the "Listeds only, never NASDAQ" posts was wondering for a while if I really miss something. With these posts stating that this is normal order of things for NYSE I am pretty sure I am trading right market for me. This is impossible situation for NASDAQ. I can't imagine trading with such dependence on single person that could legally, or near legally, fill or ignore your order. Competitory system where all the participants work their orders and once your price level is hit with enough shares you get a sure fill looks so much more appropriate for trading... Well, to each his own, I guess...

Vad

It is true what you are saying about nasdaq stocks. However there are not many big liquid Nasdaq stocks over $50. You start to lose some trading options this way. However like all the other posts have pointed out there are definitely some tradeoff to trading NYSE stocks too. I love the price improvement which can be significant. But what I also learned is that one persons price improvement is another persons "cornholing".

 

[calibertrader]

Originally posted by cornholetrading


It is true what you are saying about nasdaq stocks. However there are not many big liquid Nasdaq stocks over $50. You start to lose some trading options this way. However like all the other posts have pointed out there are definitely some tradeoff to trading NYSE stocks too. I love the price improvement which can be significant. But what I also learned is that one persons price improvement is another persons "cornholing".

So true, so true, the cornholing part. If you piss off the specialist or get on the wrong side ofhim, oh boy, teh corn hole will hurt bad, in some stocks!!!!

 

[Threei]

Originally posted by calibertrader


For example the spreads tend to be smaller on the NYSE, the screw jobs aren't as bad, you get a better feel for the move cause you don't have one market maker stepping over the other, for example if the specialist doesn't want the buyer or seller to get done, meaning the instituions who's running up or down the stock, he'll protect your stops. Of course there are occassions where he'll come after your stop. But like everything else, you need to learn which specialists do what, and which one's are more criminal then others. It's the same with market makers, some play around and some are serious. And most people that trade NASDAQ learn who to believe and who's trying to suck them in.

As for spreads, I again read lately numerous complaints about them widening lately. I realize that we have quite thin market but still, I see better spreads on NASDAQ on average. As for the rest... well, it's a matter of who got used to what I guess I for one like the situation of market makers stepping over each other, that's exactly the war of supply and demand and this is the tape I read (not in a sense of T&S reading). Specialist intervention distorts this reading, or maybe better to say, adds the factor to consider. Market makers games you mention are not really a problem anymore... pretty much died with decimalization/SuperSOES

Vad

 

[Threei]

Originally posted by cornholetrading


It is true what you are saying about nasdaq stocks. However there are not many big liquid Nasdaq stocks over $50. You start to lose some trading options this way. However like all the other posts have pointed out there are definitely some tradeoff to trading NYSE stocks too. I love the price improvement which can be significant. But what I also learned is that one persons price improvement is another persons "cornholing".

Actually price of the stock is not really an issue for me... it mattered for a while while big players just didn't mess around with cheapies, and more expensive stocks were easier to read (well, even then cheapies were valid players, too, just required specific skills). Now when entire universe went under $10 bucks you can find pretty decent and liquid movers in almost any price range. For example, look at NVDA - amazingly consistent and readable movement last days, beautiful liquidity, nice range for a daytrader, spread 1-4 cents, no problem to fill anywhere from 1 to 5K shares.

Vad

 

[shortseller]

GE- HAS BEEN WHIPING AROUND ALOT IN THE PAST 2 WEEKS, BUT I TRADE IT ALL THE TIME AND GET ALOT OF PRICE IMPROVEMENT, THERES BEEN A 2=3 CENT SPREAD THE LAST 4 MONTHS IT'S BEEN OVER 10 CENTS THE LAST WEEK. AND I ALSO HAVE NOTICED THE FILLS GETTING WORSE AND WORSE.. LIKE A PART FILL ON 200 SHARES .. YOUR NOT THE ONLY ONE.

 

[hans130]

when are they going to get out of the stone age and move to a fair and equitable market, all electronic.

 

[OldTrader]

Got to tell you....you got a WHOLE bunch of poor replies, some from people who don't know what they're talking about.

Bottomline, if your order was there when the print at 39 took place, you're entitled to a fill. Problem is, you don't know if your order was there.

First question is whether the order was routed to NYSE. Second question is whether it had time to get there. I would demand a fill, get time and sales.

If your order was THERE, there is NO such thing as "stock ahead" when a stock trades through your limit. Sheesh. Get some facts.

OldTrader

 

[metooxx]

Originally posted by OldTrader
Got to tell you....you got a WHOLE bunch of poor replies, some from people who don't know what they're talking about.

Bottomline, if your order was there when the print at 39 took place, you're entitled to a fill. Problem is, you don't know if your order was there.

First question is whether the order was routed to NYSE. Second question is whether it had time to get there. I would demand a fill, get time and sales.

If your order was THERE, there is NO such thing as "stock ahead" when a stock trades through your limit. Sheesh. Get some facts.

OldTrader

I agree ...