Quote from monee:
Oldtrader I have found your posts very interesting and helpful.
My setups I trade are similar to some of yours,but sometimes my discipline is weak.I realize having discipline weak sometimes is like being a little bit pregnant.
Many days I have caught an intraday reversal and bought within a point or 2 of the low and made 4 points only to see the mkt go 20.
What I have done now is after getting my fill and placing my stop, I will set an alarm for a target and my stop and leave the room ,and return only if the alarm is going off or its 3:55. More often than not this works better.
Interesting to come back later and see how es moved 3 points from my entry and went all the way back to my entry and then took off for the real move.Looking at the chart I know that if I had been in front of the computer I would have taken a tiny gain and missed the real move.
If I recall correctly in a previous post of yours you mention that you use limit orders to enter the mkt.I'm wondering if having them in would eliminate some of the emotional weakness in my trading.It does seem like the human brain is more important in the entry so one should be sitting in front of the screen,where as the human element in the exit can be a negative point ,since most times es will do all kinds of things before it reaches the target.
My question for you is how do you deal with discipline lapses,
or after 35 years of trading have you overcome this weakness and discipline comes second nature?
Thanks again for your insiteful posts.
Monee
Monee:
First, a quick comment on limit orders. Yes, I always use limit orders...but I don't mean to imply that I put an order in away from the market, then walk away from the screen.
Let's say the trend is up. I like to buy reactions against that trend. So the ES is moving down, and the selling starts to get a little carried away, and for one reason or another I believe that I should buy, I enter my order. Usually I enter the order close to where it's trading...but I may enter on the bid side of the quote, or perhaps just under a low if we're near one...something like that. I'm not placing order way away from the market....I don't enter an order until I see something that makes me want to buy or sell.
As it pertains to discipline, we all have our lapses. I still have them even after all these years....I think it's human! LOL. But I've gotten better over the years than I was at one time.
As crazy as it probably sounds, one of the things that was a big help to me was learning how to meditate. I learned a little on how to quiet my mind....perhaps a little about how to stand outside myself and observe myself.
At one time I did what you have mentioned...I walked away from the screen. But I really in the end didn't like that way very well...I mean there might be something that comes up.
So instead, eventually I had to grasp both intellectually and emotionally that the route to bigger money was to sit. That the market was a little like a bucking bronco....it would do everything within it's power to get you out, make you believe the move was ending. And your job was to sit, observe, observe the market, observe your own reaction to the market.
Observing yourself creates some perspective....you might think, there I go again, being fearful that I'm going to lose....I wonder why I still feel that sense of scarcity. There I go again, wanting to jump out just because it went up, just because everyone is now buying what I own. Last time I felt this sense of impatience I left a whole lot of money on the table.
It's all a psychological game I guess is what I'm saying. Meditation has helped me quiet my mind, become more focused, allowed me to watch myself instead of reacting quite so quickly.
It also helps if you're trading in alignment with the underlying trend...because the trend is a silent ally...it helps you. And I know that you know that because you don't make 20 points usually without being with the trend. If you're with the trend, it takes a while to reverse...it doesn't reverse on a dime....react, yes...reverse, no.
But just know that maintaining emotional discipline is a big part of the game...that you're human, so you'll probably screw it up at times...I do. But it gets better with time. Try meditation. I originally learned from a book called the "3 Minute Meditator" or something like that. Simple book, with lots of techniques.
OldTrader
But the flipside is this, for the overwhelming majority of people who have no interest (or stomach) in making hundreds of millions, if you can consistently take a paltry 3 pts average out of the ES on a daily basis, and can bring yourself to trade a meager 3 contracts, that comes out to $112,500 per year (minus commissions). Not pocket change, better than many professions, and enough to live quite well in most places. So there's no point in taking the black 'n white view that either you should be trading like Soros or you shouldn't be trading.