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No, you don't need a trend
- Thread starter ProfitTakgFool
- Start date
Quote from X-11:
Anek, I believe PTF's method is counter-move fade type trading vs. your trend following method with Suri's chart patterns, ect. Two different animals that can not be compared to each other because they are different styles. Almost opposites in fact.
I recall saying earlier in this thread that "I am at a loss for words" and I still am.
Whether anyone puts money on this style or merely sim trades it is of no real concern to the rest of us ... after all this is ET.
However, if you want to fade the turning points in this manner, by chasing them, then why not consider closing each failing trade with a tight stop and entering a new trade on increased size equal to two trades, when the price is moving against you.
PTF mentioned somewhere, not wanting to take a loss on a potentially winning trade because he closed out too early.
This line of thought lacks clarity, probably because it contains emotive thinking.
Your fees are a small proportion of a tic and if you are going to allow 8 tics of wiggle room, instead of say 3 tics then you are giving away 5 tics less fees every time you average down/up.
That is 58+ bucks per contract or probably more than 300 bucks per day per contract.
I am not here to criticize the method, although I mention that I do not like it.
I am just trying to increase its efficiency for those of you enamored by it.
regards
f9
Quote from fearless9:
I recall saying earlier in this thread that "I am at a loss for words" and I still am.
Whether anyone puts money on this style or merely sim trades it is of no real concern to the rest of us ... after all this is ET.
However, if you want to fade the turning points in this manner, by chasing them, then why not consider closing each failing trade with a tight stop and entering a new trade on increased size equal to two trades, when the price is moving against you.
PTF mentioned somewhere, not wanting to take a loss on a potentially winning trade because he closed out too early.
This line of thought lacks clarity, probably because it contains emotive thinking.
Your fees are a small proportion of a tic and if you are going to allow 8 tics of wiggle room, instead of say 3 tics then you are giving away 5 tics less fees every time you average down/up.
That is 58+ bucks per contract or probably more than 300 bucks per day per contract.
I am not here to criticize the method, although I mention that I do not like it.
I am just trying to increase its efficiency for those of you enamored by it.
regards
f9
Fearless,
You need to actually examine both options. You might well find that there is sufficient noise and ambiguity about the turning point that your results are much more satisfying if you give the trade this room to work.
For an exposition on the base approach that has no counter-trend feel to it you might read Bird Watching in Lion Country. Not the same thing exactly but it certainly addresses your concern.
Quote from kiwi_trader:
Fearless,
You need to actually examine both options. You might well find that there is sufficient noise and ambiguity about the turning point that your results are much more satisfying if you give the trade this room to work.
For an exposition on the base approach that has no counter-trend feel to it you might read Bird Watching in Lion Country. Not the same thing exactly but it certainly addresses your concern.
Hola KT,
I am only applying logic to the example as set out in this thread.
To be honest this concept of averaging out a fading entry is one that I worked through some time ago and then placed it behind me as being too inefficient for my taste.
I do however favour catching turning points as they greatly reduce the size of your stop margins, and I am ruthless about my stops.
In essence I am front running volume and if the volume does not fill in behind me I will wiggle my way out for what I can get or I will just dump the position and start again.
regards
f9
Exactly. If the market gives you money take it. You don't have to take all of it but take at least some. This puts money in your account and reduces your exposure to the next market move. It also puts you in a position to take advantage of the next move because you have more fire power.
Another thing I will do is take a 1/3 at a point or so, take another 1/3 at 2 or 3 points or so, and put a stop at break-even. The runner is a risk free trade. Just let the sucker fly and if it comes back to break even you still win on a 2/3 trade.
Another thing I will do is take a 1/3 at a point or so, take another 1/3 at 2 or 3 points or so, and put a stop at break-even. The runner is a risk free trade. Just let the sucker fly and if it comes back to break even you still win on a 2/3 trade.
Quote from tradestrong:
It shot straight up today to 68, so I sold half my position. If it drops from here, I'll add more at about a standard deviation and a half below this point. I've already "been profitable", so the risk is reduced.
Point well taken Anek. I used to do exactly what you describe but I found my stops would get triggered pretty damn near the bottom. The problem was my timing was good but not perfect. I'd get tossed on a fairly minor fluctuation. After watching this happen over and over and over I decided to try a different way......
Quote from Anekdoten:
Or you could just take a small loss, reduce risk and wait until you do make a good call to add on retracements.
I understand about the difficulty of picking the best entries time after time well that's what re-entries are for.
Some people just prefer to increase risk by letting a loser getting even bigger, I would never be able to understand that.
Small losses are fine, what's the big deal.
Anek
I can make money in <i>all</i> market conditions. I would be flipping burgers otherwise. It just so happens that a choppy market is the environment we're in and the example I decided to show.
Quote from gaynproud:
Talking about a system that makes money in chop in December is fine.. but what do you do the other 11 months? Just trade during lunch?
Interesting thoughts f9. I guess it comes down to this....find what works for you and do it over and over. There are no two traders or methods alike and your method probably wouldn't appeal to me. Everybody has to find their own groove.
Quote from fearless9:
I recall saying earlier in this thread that "I am at a loss for words" and I still am.
Whether anyone puts money on this style or merely sim trades it is of no real concern to the rest of us ... after all this is ET.
However, if you want to fade the turning points in this manner, by chasing them, then why not consider closing each failing trade with a tight stop and entering a new trade on increased size equal to two trades, when the price is moving against you.
PTF mentioned somewhere, not wanting to take a loss on a potentially winning trade because he closed out too early.
This line of thought lacks clarity, probably because it contains emotive thinking.
Your fees are a small proportion of a tic and if you are going to allow 8 tics of wiggle room, instead of say 3 tics then you are giving away 5 tics less fees every time you average down/up.
That is 58+ bucks per contract or probably more than 300 bucks per day per contract.
I am not here to criticize the method, although I mention that I do not like it.
I am just trying to increase its efficiency for those of you enamored by it.
regards
f9