Niederhoffer In Trouble..... Again !!

you are so ignorant. Several people in this thread have counter argued your point and you still dont get it. It does not matter how much he made for anyone before, his fund blew up and most of those individuals whom he invested for have not withdrawn any funds beforehand. How happy should I be that he made me 45% p.a. if I see zilch in the end.

Quote from 1outernational:

I agree. However vn wealth came from years of stellar returns. Years. However you choose to look at the blow ups while I see the overall picture.

Furthermore. He lost huge right along with his investors as well as made big money with them. pari pasu
 
OK, so for the last time, how much did VN made or lost dollar-wise trading over his entire career? If there is a + in front of the number, I apologize for what I said, but I doubt it ...

He blew up every time when he had the most money, including "fresh money" from new investors.
 
Quote from TraDaToR:

OK, so for the last time, how much did VN made or lost dollar-wise trading over his entire career? If there is a + in front of the number, I apologize for what I said, but I doubt...

He blew up every time when he had the most money, including "fresh money" from new investors.

VN probably made out OK.... pocketing his 2/20 in good years but not having all/most of his money in his own programs when they blew up. He might have made more than all of his investors combined...
 
Sorry, I meant for him AND his investors, excluding management fees...Trading results you know.... No way it's a positive number...
 
of course he is net down (generated p&l, after trading costs), are you kidding me? This plus the fact that he does not live under the bridge VERY LOGICALLY means that he enriched himself while he lost money to others. Sorry but my ethical values would prohibit me from praising myself, judging everyone around me wrong, and having the audacity to even try to play the same game again, was I in VN's position. Luckily I am not him, otherwise I would go to hide rather than wining around and telling everyone that the 1997 crisis arose because of my trading positions, and how markets got it all wrong, man what a sad life, seriously, how can you in his age and experience display such ignorance to life.

Quote from TraDaToR:

OK, so for the last time, how much did VN made or lost dollar-wise trading over his entire career? If there is a + in front of the number, I apologize for what I said, but I doubt...

He blew up every time when he had the most money, including "fresh money" from new investors.
 
Quote from asiaprop:

of course he is net down (generated p&l, after trading costs), are you kidding me?

Yes, I am convinced too, but I am not an expert on him.

I know the famous blow-ups but not if he had a fund of fund under Soros where he made incredible returns for his investors or things like that. I don't have the full picture.
 
I'm not sure how Vn operated, but I know personally that I distribute profits every quarter, so if there is a blowup, it wouldn't necessarily mean a net loss. But again, I am very suprised that he didn't utilize some kind of ratio spreads at his critical points to protect against the huge loss, it took me only two blowups to figure that out for myself, lol.
 
Quote from 1outernational:

@jem

The truth is success is what makes a person a target on et. I know someone who was loved on et untill he reached a minisculey small time level of fame and success. Then et turned on him. Happens all the time. Most traders lose making them an angry bunch. Most couldn't raise 1000 dollars let alone 500 million. Jealousy truly reigns supreme since everyone thinks trading is easy untill they lose it all.

While you have some good points and observations counselor. You fail to understand that wealth is how tis game is scored. It's not scored by bunches of little hits. While they may earn a salary. Most of us are in this game for the big score. Risk is needed to make the big score. Sometimes risk will cut you down. It's the chance you take when you are shooting for top dog

I guess the salary folks will never understand the war. Let alone the battles.

Premium selling seems to be quite the opposite of what you seem to be advocating.

It is risk giving not risk taking.

It is singles and walks while lobbing fat pitches to random batters and sooner or later you know you will face a series of batters on steroids.
 
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Quote from asiaprop:

Sorry but my ethical values would prohibit me from praising myself...

Well that's clearly not true, as you are a nobody who as accomplished nothing, yet all you do on ET is praise yourself either directly, or indirectly by taking comparison-cheap-shots at others.

Pot, kettle, etc.
 
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