New York judge finds Donald Trump liable for fraud

As I recall it started with the whole family being herded down to the basement and shot so... Ok half-Scoop. You got it.

‘Like the start of the Bolshevik Revolution’: Don Trump Jr. unspools after being found liable for fraud
https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-jr-fraud/

Donald Trump Jr. reacted to being found liable for fraud in New York by insisting he was punished for his famous name.

During an appearance on The Charlie Kirk Show on Wednesday, Trump objected to New York Judge Arthur Engoron's ruling that found him, his father, and others liable for fraudulently manipulating the value of assets.

"I've never seen anything even like it," Trump said. "I mean, this is sort of like the start of the Bolshevik Revolution. We don't just we don't like you. So we're going to confiscate property. We're going to do these things."

(More at above url)
 
gwb-trading said:
NOW -- Donald Trump and his adult kids now claim that Mar-A-Lago is valued up to $1.8 Billion.

But in 2020, Trump appealed the tax appraisers $26 million valuation and said it should be valued lower in order to lessen his tax burden.

Trump Disputed $26M Mar-A-Lago Valuation as Too High in 2020
Judge Engoron simply cited undisputed facts and Trump’s words
https://www.meidastouch.com/news/trump-disputed-26m-mar-a-lago-valuation-as-too-high-in-2020
More...

Mar-A-Lago-Tax-Time.jpg
 
Mercor said:
Who is the victim in this scheme? Who lost money?
Who are the banks that reported this
More...
You're a little confused. The plaintiff is "The people of New York"
Also, see Bugenhagen's post #11.
 
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gwb-trading said:
New York judge finds Donald Trump liable for fraud
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/politics/trump-organization-business-fraud

A New York judge has found Donald Trump and his adult sons liable for fraud, saying the Trumps provided false financial statements for roughly a decade.

Judge Arthur Engoron’s ruling came days before the civil case involving the New York attorney general’s office and the former president was set to go to trial.

This story is breaking and will be updated.
More...

I’m not an attorney, so don’t take my comments as legal advice. Likely, a competent attorney, if Trump has one, would make a much more compelling case for Trump’s position, than I can.

Here are seven points related to the apparent political prosecution of Trump in the New York property valuation trial:

  1. Presumption of innocence - Property valuations are subjective and subject to change. Even a property valuation on the same date, by the same appraiser, can vary by appraisal type and one of three common valuation methods. Normally, a bank orders the appraisal from a licensed appraiser as part of their decision making process.
  2. Equal justice under the law - Political prosecution? Was Trump singled out or was there a major “Crackdown” on commercial borrowers, regardless of their political affiliation?
  3. Was a party harmed by the valuation statement? If so, did the harmed party know or should have known the valuation was unreasonable? Is it ever reasonable for a bank to rely on borrowers valuation statements either because borrower lack of professional(State licensed) expertise or conflict of interest?
  4. The lawsuit against Trump is in contravention of long established business practices. Possible long established tradition versus recently enacted rule change conflict.
  5. Likely violation of bank’s fiduciary duty of confidentiality owed to Trump, tainting validity of lawsuit. Any regulatory requirement for a bank to calculate and report possible stated and probable asset valuations could be easily considered regulatory overreach or even unconstitutional by a higher court.
  6. Bank officers often “Encourage” borrowers to inflate assets to increase their chance of procuring business. Further, banks verify information by the borrower (Processing) and make a decision whether to make the loan (Underwriting), making the bank effectively a party in determining property valuation.
  7. One of the meta issues Leftist miss when engaging in political prosecutions is the adverse effect on the business environment. In the example above, borrowers may feel they are locked out of a market they may have otherwise qualified for, reducing profit potential for lenders. This in turn may cause related businesses to reduce expansion plans, limited local economic potential. We saw this effect during the Obama Administration are a nationwide scale where businesses, even though incentivized, were reluctant to expand over fears related regulatory and enforcement uncertainty. Just as the Republicans screwed themselves messing with the status quo with Roe versus Wade, Democrats risk screwing all of us by creating an unnecessarily unfriendly business environment. As far as the idea of selectively enforcing rules for politically aligned businesses, guess what happens to prices when competition is reduced?
 
BeautifulStranger said:
I’m not an attorney, so don’t take my comments as legal advice. Likely, a competent attorney, if Trump has one, would make a much more compelling case for Trump’s position, than I can.

Here are seven points related to the apparent political prosecution of Trump in the New York property valuation trial:

  1. Presumption of innocence - Property valuations are subjective and subject to change. Even a property valuation on the same date, by the same appraiser, can vary by appraisal type and one of three common valuation methods. Normally, a bank orders the appraisal from a licensed appraiser as part of their decision making process.
  2. Equal justice under the law - Political prosecution? Was Trump singled out or was there a major “Crackdown” on commercial borrowers, regardless of their political affiliation?
  3. Was a party harmed by the valuation statement? If so, did the harmed party know or should have known the valuation was unreasonable? Is it ever reasonable for a bank to rely on borrowers valuation statements either because borrower lack of professional(State licensed) expertise or conflict of interest?
  4. The lawsuit against Trump is in contravention of long established business practices. Possible long established tradition versus recently enacted rule change conflict.
  5. Likely violation of bank’s fiduciary duty of confidentiality owed to Trump, tainting validity of lawsuit. Any regulatory requirement for a bank to calculate and report possible stated and probable asset valuations could be easily considered regulatory overreach or even unconstitutional by a higher court.
  6. Bank officers often “Encourage” borrowers to inflate assets to increase their chance of procuring business. Further, banks verify information by the borrower (Processing) and make a decision whether to make the loan (Underwriting), making the bank effectively a party in determining property valuation.
  7. One of the meta issues Leftist miss when engaging in political prosecutions is the adverse effect on the business environment. In the example above, borrowers may feel they are locked out of a market they may have otherwise qualified for, reducing profit potential for lenders. This in turn may cause related businesses to reduce expansion plans, limited local economic potential. We saw this effect during the Obama Administration are a nationwide scale where businesses, even though incentivized, were reluctant to expand over fears related regulatory and enforcement uncertainty. Just as the Republicans screwed themselves messing with the status quo with Roe versus Wade, Democrats risk screwing all of us by creating an unnecessarily unfriendly business environment. As far as the idea of selectively enforcing rules for politically aligned businesses, guess what happens to prices when competition is reduced?
More...

Maybe you need to to read the summary from the judge -- it addresses most of your points. What the Trumps engaged in was direct fraud.
 
gwb-trading said:
Maybe you need to to read the summary from the judge -- it addresses most of your points. What the Trumps engaged in was direct fraud.
More...

1. Who was the victim and how were they affected?
2. Did the bank(s) directly or indirectly have a part in determining “Reasonable value”?
3. How was reasonable value determined and why should that method have authority?
4. How many other businesses has the prosecution brought a similar lawsuit?
5. Did the judge err when categorically denying an apparent reasonable defense?
6. The case has not been actually decided yet. The judge apparently ruled on a lesser point of the case, correct?
 
Unique to NYC, its actual square footage is half the advertised square footage.
NYC tax base is inflated. Rents are based on price per advertised square foot.
 
BeautifulStranger said:
1. Who was the victim and how were they affected?
2. Did the bank(s) directly or indirectly have a part in determining “Reasonable value”?
3. How was reasonable value determined and why should that method have authority?
4. How many other businesses has the prosecution brought a similar lawsuit?
5. Did the judge err when categorically denying an apparent reasonable defense?
6. The case has not been actually decided yet. The judge apparently ruled on a lesser point of the case, correct?
More...

Once again -- read the summary from the judge. It addresses all of your points relevant to this particular case.

Whether the prosecution has brought similar lawsuits against other businesses is irrelevant. (they have by the way over the past 30 years in NY).
 
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