Never in a million years could have seen this coming.

Ricter said:
Ok, but if the illegals leave, and unemployed Americans take those jobs, many of which are at or below minimum wage, then they won't be making "a living" anyway, whether they're owed one or not.
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Heck, a recent study came out saying that for a family of four to "live the American dream" they needed an income of 130k. That means only one family in eight can do so.
 
Ricter said:
Liberals may not cry, they may point out that, despite falling unemployment, job seekers still outnumber job openings by over 2 to 1. Your solution, while good and desirable, will at this time simply worsen that ratio.
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I'm just curious, but can you show me data behind that job seekers/job openings ratio you quoted?
 
futurecurrents said:
Heck, a recent study came out saying that for a family of four to "live the American dream" they needed an income of 130k. That means only one family in eight can do so.
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Wow, all sorts of generic terms and stats being thrown around as if fact. First, what is defined as "The American Dream" in that "recent study"? Can you link to it? I'd like to see what they include that they need 130k to support themselves with! Or are these just more "wild ass guesses"?
 
Ricter said:
Ok, but if the illegals leave, and unemployed Americans take those jobs, many of which are at or below minimum wage, then they won't be making "a living" anyway, whether they're owed one or not.
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I disagree .. employers would have to pay legal citizens at least minimum wage. As it is now many pay the illegals under the table in cash. Instead of paying a carpenter $15/hour cash to an illegal he's have to pay $20 or whatever the going rate is.
 
futurecurrents said:
Heck, a recent study came out saying that for a family of four to "live the American dream" they needed an income of 130k. That means only one family in eight can do so.
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No one is owed "the American Dream" ... those motivated can achieve it through hard work. And people CHOOSE to have kids ... better solution is to plan and have the number of kids you can support financially, emotionally and in all other ways. Funny that people like Herman Cain and Ben Carson achieved it even growing up in poverty. Carson's Mom was basically illiterate.
 
Tsing Tao said:
Wow, all sorts of generic terms and stats being thrown around as if fact. First, what is defined as "The American Dream" in that "recent study"? Can you link to it? I'd like to see what they include that they need 130k to support themselves with! Or are these just more "wild ass guesses"?
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Probably "wild ass guesses" .... from 2009 we have:

More Americans feel that they've achieved the American dream than said so four years ago, a CBS News/New York Times poll finds. In a survey taken in April and released Monday, 44 percent of those surveyed said they have achieved the American dream, up 12 points from 2005.

Another 31 percent say they will reach the American dream in their lifetime. Twenty percent think that the American dream is beyond their grasp.

Unsurprisingly, attitudes on the topic are correlated to income levels. More than half (58 percent) of those who make more than $50,000 per year say they have achieved the American dream, while only a third of those who make under $50,000 say so.


So to jump from $50,000 to $130,000 in 5 years is laughable. So in 2009 when the economy was rocky and the market well below where it is today almost 60% (6/10) making $50,000 or more felt they'd achieved the American Dream. Sorry but my Stats background finds a negative correlation with a supposed requirement of $130,000 and that 1/8 (12.5%) have (or can) achieve it.
 
Tsing Tao said:
Wow, all sorts of generic terms and stats being thrown around as if fact. First, what is defined as "The American Dream" in that "recent study"? Can you link to it? I'd like to see what they include that they need 130k to support themselves with! Or are these just more "wild ass guesses"?
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Its something he got from Bill Maher i heard him talking about it on his show. No doubt its some bullshit coming out of libveral circles in California.
 
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