Never in a million years could have seen this coming.

This is one of those areas where there is some separation between myself and some of my friends on the right. If there welfare fraud? Yes! Should it be addressed? Absolutely! However, if we stopped every single person who is defrauding welfare, that would not compare to the damage done to our economy by corporate welfare and corporations scamming the system. Bottom line, it wasn't some welfare queen that destroyed the economy in 08. It wasn't some union worker making shitty cars over at GM. It was the corporations, specifically those in the financial industry, and the welfare check they received for doing the damage is unconscionable. The complete lack of any significant criminal legal action against them is criminal in and of itself. Not one f'n prosecution? Com'on! The S&L scam delivered thousands of criminal prosecutions and that was a pimple on the ass of what culminated in 2008.
Where you and I may disagree, is that the Obama administration has failed miserably holding these people to account. Further, his high mined speeches about caring for the average American worker is nothing but empty rhetoric. I can't think of another elected offical who inspired so much hope in the beginning and delivered so little in actual substance.

Captain, I'm sure you know this, but the argument on the right against welfare is NOT about giving money to lazy people or giving money to black people. It just irritates the hell out of many people here, myself included, that votes can be bought so cheaply. And that's all the left is doing, buying votes for pennies on the dollar. The care for the poor is such bullshit. How can I prove that? What has the left done for the schools in this country? If you want to end poverty, if you really care about those poor people, educate them, don't hand them a check. When you hand them money all you have done is bought them and put them back into slavery.
 
20/20 hindsight.

One beauty of Obama derangement syndrome is that since he put Wall Streeters on his staff, that naturally caused the right to cast a critical eye on Wall Streeters. So the left has managed to get substantial numbers of righties on board with antagonism to plutocracy.

The right has hardly been a friend to Wall Street in the past. Last time NY went red was Reagan. Most of middle America can't stand Wall Street. Sure, there are some republicans that live in the NY, but most of those working on Wall Street are pretentious Ivy League liberals. I know, I worked there. I could count on one hand how many people I met in finance there that leaned right. LOL.
 
The right has hardly been a friend to Wall Street in the past. Last time NY went red was Reagan. Most of middle America can't stand Wall Street. Sure, there are some republicans that live in the NY, but most of those working on Wall Street are pretentious Ivy League liberals. I know, I worked there. I could count on one hand how many people I met in finance there that leaned right. LOL.

Fair enough. Many on the left will admit that Obama's picks at that time were very disappointing. As for Wall Street political support, the money flows from firms, and they seem to support whichever party they think will win, and return their investment with interest. So I guess both parties love 'em or hate 'em, depending.
 
Fair enough. Many on the left will admit that Obama's picks at that time were very disappointing. As for Wall Street political support, the money flows from firms, and they seem to support whichever party they think will win, and return their investment with interest. So I guess both parties love 'em or hate 'em, depending.

Agreed, most "firms" want to bet on the winning horse. But don't discount the amount of money raised privately in CT, Long Island, Westchester, Jersey from these uber rich wall street families. They are NOT picking winners. They are hardcore liberals and make no apologies about it. Obama emptied their pockets doing fundraisers. Of course these families don't even know what the inside of a public school looks like so I doubt he got any suggestions on how to improve them at these fundraisers.
 
If one guesses a 7% fraud rate in the above, that's 1% of the total budget. When looked at like that, all the screaming and yelling about the "entitled class" and such seems kind of silly. Especially when in relation to defense spending.

Where are you getting the 7% from?
 
Yes I know. The problem is none of this gets broken out in the 30 second sound bites and the 3 minute shouting matches we see on each and every media outlet. Unfortunately this frames the opinion of far too many people. I honestly believe that most people could come to an agreement on most every issue if we could have an actual discussion. Radical elements of both parties have no interest in discussion and the people of this country have little to no representation at the table. The activists rule the roost.

Captain, I'm sure you know this, but the argument on the right against welfare is NOT about giving money to lazy people or giving money to black people. It just irritates the hell out of many people here, myself included, that votes can be bought so cheaply. And that's all the left is doing, buying votes for pennies on the dollar. The care for the poor is such bullshit. How can I prove that? What has the left done for the schools in this country? If you want to end poverty, if you really care about those poor people, educate them, don't hand them a check. When you hand them money all you have done is bought them and put them back into slavery.
 
And how have the school reached their current state? One can't lay it all on the doorstep of the left. Republicans have been in charge since 1968.
 
And how have the school reached their current state? One can't lay it all on the doorstep of the left. Republicans have been in charge since 1968.

Math and science scores peaked in the 70's right before Jimmy Carter created the Dept. of Education. Since that time, it's been a steady spiral down for 3 decades. And DP, most schools at the granular level are run by the left. Both administratively as well as the ideology of most teachers. But hey, on the plus side, look at the wonderful diversity we have now. Now ALL kids are idiots. Just goes to show you, with socialism, everyone sinks to the lowest common denominator.
 
Math and science scores peaked in the 70's right before Jimmy Carter created the Dept. of Education. Since that time, it's been a steady spiral down for 3 decades. And DP, most schools at the granular level are run by the left. Both administratively as well as the ideology of most teachers. But hey, on the plus side, look at the wonderful diversity we have now. Now ALL kids are idiots. Just goes to show you, with socialism, everyone sinks to the lowest common denominator.

If left leaning ideology is the cause, then countries farther left than the US (is that even possible!!?) should have worse student scores in science and math.
 
Math and science scores peaked in the 70's right before Jimmy Carter created the Dept. of Education. Since that time, it's been a steady spiral down for 3 decades. And DP, most schools at the granular level are run by the left. Both administratively as well as the ideology of most teachers. But hey, on the plus side, look at the wonderful diversity we have now. Now ALL kids are idiots. Just goes to show you, with socialism, everyone sinks to the lowest common denominator.

Shall we examine all of these assumptions one by one?
 
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