Depends on how one defines "our". There are those who believe that the members of a society should care for each other. And there are those who believe that it should be every man for himself. Combining the two creates problems.
Never in a million years could have seen this coming.
- Thread starter Max E.
- Start date
Depends on how one defines "our". There are those who believe that the members of a society should care for each other. And there are those who believe that it should be every man for himself. Combining the two creates problems.
I thought you were talking about the corporations with their subsidies tax breaks and the rorts in the medical system until you mentioned foodstamps
Does anyone know of the % of people who actually rort the system as opposed to those who really cannot get a job, are disabled, actually work 2-3 jobs at minimum wage and require help to get by....or the % of people who get on benefits and then actually get off.
What is the real % of those who really make a career out of benefit rorting?
...........
I had another thought while bike riding.
While competition is a good thing, and the USA has done well with it. I wonder if it has its ugly downside in creating the us v them syndrome - even if that is learnt or inbuilt.
I think corporatisation rather than capitalism reinforces a lot of this in society as well as stifling innovation, keeping a workforce poor (and why not it makes sense from their pov) and actually diverting a lot of personal responsibility. How many wealthy libertarians and others proclaiming personal accountability protect themselves using companies and other entities and use OPM. .....just more food for thought with no real view on a lot of it either way. Time for ice cream!
This is a ridiculous comparison that radical left wingers like to make, as if there is anything similar between a person keeping more of their own money that THEY EARNED, and the parasites who live off of other people.
I thought you were talking about the corporations with their subsidies tax breaks and the rorts in the medical system until you mentioned foodstamps
Does anyone know of the % of people who actually rort the system as opposed to those who really cannot get a job, are disabled, actually work 2-3 jobs at minimum wage and require help to get by....or the % of people who get on benefits and then actually get off.
What is the real % of those who really make a career out of benefit rorting?
...........
I had another thought while bike riding.
While competition is a good thing, and the USA has done well with it. I wonder if it has its ugly downside in creating the us v them syndrome - even if that is learnt or inbuilt.
I think corporatisation rather than capitalism reinforces a lot of this in society as well as stifling innovation, keeping a workforce poor (and why not it makes sense from their pov) and actually diverting a lot of personal responsibility. How many wealthy libertarians and others proclaiming personal accountability protect themselves using companies and other entities and use OPM. .....just more food for thought with no real view on a lot of it either way. Time for ice cream!
You think about this stuff while riding?
Democracy and capitalism are essentially incompatible. This became clear about 30 years ago when the emphasis shifted toward corporate profits and the lower and middle class were left pretty much hanging.
Can it be reversed? Yes. Will it be reversed? Eventually, if we can survive long enough.
Oh no. I think you misunderstand. I was talking about the money going toward our dept of offense.
The welfare cheats as commonly and justifiably despised by the right only use about 1% of the national budget. But judging by their out-sized outrage it would seem that this 1% is equivalent to the murder of hundreds of thousands of people.
Detroit Shuts Off Water to Residents but Not to Businesses Who Owe Millions
DETROIT â In Detroit, even the most basic necessity cannot be taken for granted.
Some 15,000 residential customers have lost water service, and tens of thousands more are in danger of losing it, thanks to past due bills. But businesses owing hundreds of thousands of dollars have not been disconnected, Detroit Water and Sewerage Department records show.
According to a department list, the top 40 commercial and industrial accounts have past-due accounts totaling $9.5 million. That list includes apartment complexes, the Chrysler Group, real estate agencies, a laundromat and even a cemetery.
Meanwhile, stories of residential shutoffs abound. Tangela Harris been doing her best to keep up, but when she was no longer able to work she had trouble stretching her monthly $780 in disability benefits to pay the water bill. So her water service was disconnected. Harris has since come up with $1,100 to have services restored but is having trouble keeping her $180 monthly payment to the water department. On top of that, her home has entered foreclosure because Detroit water bills are rolled into property taxes.
âThey can say my house is condemned and take it,â said Harris, 38, a community organizer. âPeople think weâre not prioritizing, but itâs not that simple when youâre under the poverty level. Itâs a different mindset.â more . . .
DETROIT â In Detroit, even the most basic necessity cannot be taken for granted.
Some 15,000 residential customers have lost water service, and tens of thousands more are in danger of losing it, thanks to past due bills. But businesses owing hundreds of thousands of dollars have not been disconnected, Detroit Water and Sewerage Department records show.
According to a department list, the top 40 commercial and industrial accounts have past-due accounts totaling $9.5 million. That list includes apartment complexes, the Chrysler Group, real estate agencies, a laundromat and even a cemetery.
Meanwhile, stories of residential shutoffs abound. Tangela Harris been doing her best to keep up, but when she was no longer able to work she had trouble stretching her monthly $780 in disability benefits to pay the water bill. So her water service was disconnected. Harris has since come up with $1,100 to have services restored but is having trouble keeping her $180 monthly payment to the water department. On top of that, her home has entered foreclosure because Detroit water bills are rolled into property taxes.
âThey can say my house is condemned and take it,â said Harris, 38, a community organizer. âPeople think weâre not prioritizing, but itâs not that simple when youâre under the poverty level. Itâs a different mindset.â more . . .
FC - yes... I was pulling your chain. However you regularly ignore the issues with benefit program fraud in the U.S., which undermines the confidence of the overall population with these programs. Nor can you ignore that countries without a strong national defense tend to become victims historically.
In an earlier post I provided information presented at the North Carolina conference regarding fraud level in the standard U.S. benefit programs.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3895474&highlight=welfare#post3895474
For a good overview of issues involving public benefit program fraud and poverty in the U.S., I would urge you to read "The Criminalization of Poverty" paper by respected researcher Kaaryn S. Gustafson as well as her other associated papers that provide an in-depth look at the issues.
One quote - âAccording to welfare officials, welfare fraud measures are designed to achieve several goals: to catch welfare cheats, to deter would-be and actual welfare cheats, and to reduce governmental costs. The first goal, catching cheats, is one that the system is certainly achieving. The problem, however, is that the vast majority of welfare recipients are technically welfare cheats. If they were not, they would be unable to survive.â
But welfare fraud is what gets the righties all angry and foaming at the mouth. You know, the leech class. Those lazy minority types.
Welfare fraud is about 1 or 2 % of the budget. Hell, I bet there is twice as much fraud and waste in the DOD budget.
So DOD waste is 2-4%? I think it's much, much higher. However, I'm quite interested in your source for the 1-2% of waste in welfare. You do have a source for that number you threw out, don't you?
And to talk about the % of waste in the total budget (all spend types) is not relevant. What is relevant is how much of the welfare budget is spent through fraud.
The social safety net is 12% of the overall budget. Goes for the refundable portions of the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit, which assist low- and moderate-income working families through the tax code; programs that provide cash payments to eligible individuals or households, including Supplemental Security Income for the elderly or disabled poor and unemployment insurance; various forms of in-kind assistance for low-income families and individuals, including SNAP (food stamps), school meals, low-income housing assistance, child care assistance, and assistance in meeting home energy bills; and various other programs such as those that aid abused and neglected children.
A WAG (yes, a guess) is that 7% of that is fraud. 7% of 12% is about 1%.
Righties seem to think this welfare fraud is a much larger problem and this misconception is a big reason why they are righties to begin with.