Never in a million years could have seen this coming.

[DHOHHI]

They CHOOSE welfare because they can't get a job that pays enough for them to live on.

As for getting an education, hire better teachers. Reduce class sizes. Give teachers more autonomy in the classroom. Provide up-to-date curriculum materials. As for having kids, educate them about sex and provide contraception.

As for the "woe is me" BS, you may want to dial that back yourself.

And why can't they get a better job? Lack of education ... drop outs! I've forgotten more about this subject than you will ever know. 13 years working with kids who have loser parent(s), who are more than happy to 'use' the system. For many it is a way of life. Why work when you can sit on your ass and make more by taking advantage of every government program out there, whether qualified or not. Do you have any clue as to how much fraud is all the government run programs? And then on the side some of them deal drugs or engage in other illegal activities netting them $$$$. I've seen parents of kids ... who are known drug dealers .. pull up to school in their nice new Cadillac Escalade. And yet they get food stamps, Section 8 housing, utility bill assistance, welfare payments, etc. Some are truly working poor ... but many are in the above category and while they use the system they also at the same time bitch about lack of opportunities and being poor. But how many CHOOSE to be proactive and make things happen?

Hire better teachers? LOL If we started with abolishing the damn teachers unions that would be a great first step. The teachers I work with are mostly young, ambitious and 100% committed to teaching these kids. They are TEACHERS ... and not supposed to fill the role of parent and baby sitter.

 

[DHOHHI]

Considering a do nothing CEO of a company like CAT makes 20 million a year while holding his workers to a no wage increase six year contract, 22 bucks an hour is exactly what the minimum should be. This scumbag is representative of the absurd disparity in pay. If these f'n board room boyz are worth tens, hundreds of millions, the guy on the factory floor is worth a 100K, EASY.

I saw guys working on the factory floor at semi-skilled jobs at GM making $125K/year back in the early to mid 90's. A little OT goes a long way.

 

[Max E.]

A little OT goes a long way.

Especially when your own slacking causes the need for OT.

 

[CaptainObvious]

We should be able to agree, but as soon as someone asks what is a fair wage for most CEO's, someone is going to reply, what's fair got to do with it? The argument then ensues.
The fact of the matter is, IMO, fair does have something to do with it. It is the complete exploitation of a company workforce when it is only those at the top are rewarded for increased productivity. It's as if having a job alone is reward enough for the guy on the factory floor. Oh thank you great pharaoh for your generosity in allowing me to toil away for you. Fuck that! When profits, stock price go up, everyone's pay should go up. Conversely, if/when things go south for awhile, everyone should take the hit then too. That would be fair.
In no way do I assert that all pay should be equal. Those at the top will always make more, in many cases much more, and that's fine. But when some guy who is nothing but a glorified salesman is making tens of millions while the "skilled" people who actually do something, make something, are earning 40K a year, that's bullshit. It needs to change.

While i strongly disagree with the minimum wage thing, i think 1 thing even most conservatives can agree on is that these CEO's who have no skin in the game should not be getting paid 20 million plus per year.

It used to be the CEO's were the owner of a company, in which case i would have no problem with them paying themselves as much as they want. Like Mark Zuckerberg, or Bill Gates. But its the assholes with no skin in the game who simply became CEO because they are part of the "Good ol boys club" who have to go. Combine their pay with golden parachutes, and they are simply looting these companies, its a game of "Heads I win, Tails you lose."

 

[CaptainObvious]

I saw guys working on the factory floor at semi-skilled jobs at GM making $125K/year back in the early to mid 90's. A little OT goes a long way.

And those running this failing company made tens, if not hundreds of millions. A little good old boy, business as usual network goes a long ways too. Fact is, in the case of GM, both the hourly workforce and management should have been taking huge pay cuts.

 

[dbphoenix]

And why can't they get a better job? Lack of education ... drop outs! I've forgotten more about this subject than you will ever know. 13 years working with kids who have loser parent(s), who are more than happy to 'use' the system.

Actually I was a teacher for nearly 20 years, much of it in a poverty district. So playing the experience card isn't going to fly with me.

You're stuck in a state of perpetual whine and offer no solutions whatsoever. If all of this bothers you so much, run for the school board. Run for the city council. Do something more than go on and on ad infinitum about how all the colored peoples have no one to blame but themselves. If you really believe that, you've learned nothing in spite of your "experience".

 

[dbphoenix]

We should be able to agree, but as soon as someone asks what is a fair wage for most CEO's, someone is going to reply, what's fair got to do with it? The argument then ensues.
The fact of the matter is, IMO, fair does have something to do with it. It is the complete exploitation of a company workforce when it is only those at the top are rewarded for increased productivity. It's as if having a job alone is reward enough for the guy on the factory floor. Oh thank you great pharaoh for your generosity in allowing me to toil away for you. Fuck that! When profits, stock price go up, everyone's pay should go up. Conversely, if/when things go south for awhile, everyone should take the hit then too. That would be fair.
In no way do I assert that all pay should be equal. Those at the top will always make more, in many cases much more, and that's fine. But when some guy who is nothing but a glorified salesman is making tens of millions while the "skilled" people who actually do something, make something, are earning 40K a year, that's bullshit. It needs to change.

I vote for CaptainObvious.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Actually I was a teacher for nearly 20 years, much of it in a poverty district. So playing the experience card isn't going to fly with me.

You're stuck in a state of perpetual whine and offer no solutions whatsoever. If all of this bothers you so much, run for the school board. Run for the city council. Do something more than go on and on ad infinitum about how all the colored peoples have no one to blame but themselves. If you really believe that, you've learned nothing in spite of your "experience".

So you maintain that he is full of crap and that family support and cultural respect or lack thereof for education are not crucial? That doing what we've been doing for 50 years, ie throwing money at the problem and blaming it on racism, is the way to go?

 

[dbphoenix]

So you maintain that he is full of crap and that family support and cultural respect or lack thereof for education are not crucial? That doing what we've been doing for 50 years, ie throwing money at the problem and blaming it on racism, is the way to go?

That's not what I said at all. Try again.

 

[DHOHHI]

Especially when your own slacking causes the need for OT.

Sure there were plenty of slackers. But try to get a union guy fired. It was impossible for anything short of murder. I saw guys sleeping out on the line. No big deal .... foreman didn't care. November 1st and half of a shift might call in sick to go hunting.