".NET beats JVM any time"...

Interesting thread, and the answer is probably "it depends".

If you want to hitch your wagon to engineering (whatever that means these days) then Java / C++ is probably the go & Linux.

If you're a bit more people oriented, it's .Net, VBA, Excel & Windows.

Other than the 1 or two gurus, I see the people people earning more, and working less.

Knuckle dragging excel front office guys kicking ass on the C++ engine room worker bees.

Crazy world.
 
sounds like the typical hogwash. I am running on Windows machines for my entire trading (and some of my strategies concern themselves with milliseconds (not microseconds as I already mentioned)). Never had an issue with viruses (I run Windows Server, minimum install to run my algorithms), never was in need of Microsoft support, never had an issue with the fact that Windows is a proprietary product (in fact I had more issues installing language packs and having new hardware recognized on Ubuntu or RedHat than I ever had on Windows (in addition to the fact that a lot of hardware drivers do not support Linux). Why would I need to cover as many hardware architectures as possible? I am not in the software business, I am in the business to managing systematic strategy portfolios. Sorry but nothing you said sounds in the slightest convincing.

Quote from comintel:

Leaner engine is important all on its own.

Also, Linux is open-source whereas Microsoft is proprietary and closed. There can be unsolvable Windows bugs (I have seen some) that can affect reliability.

"Support" from Microsoft is not enough because they will wash their hands of some situations. So there you may be, crashing away and you cannot solve it yourself because you have no source. Not a good dead-end to be in. And I have seen it happen. All you can do is guess at what might be wrong and try different combinations of hardware.

Also Linux runs on far more hardware architectures.

Also it is not just Linux. If you develop on Unix, it is easy to port to Solaris, HP-UX, AIX etc., all of which have Linux-compatibility features.

Also Linux is more reliable.

Fewer viruses.

Etc.
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Quote from hftvol:

sounds like the typical hogwash. I am running on Windows machines for my entire trading (and some of my strategies concern themselves with milliseconds (not microseconds as I already mentioned)). Never had an issue with viruses (I run Windows Server, minimum install to run my algorithms), never was in need of Microsoft support, never had an issue with the fact that Windows is a proprietary product (in fact I had more issues installing language packs and having new hardware recognized on Ubuntu or RedHat than I ever had on Windows (in addition to the fact that a lot of hardware drivers do not support Linux). Why would I need to cover as many hardware architectures as possible? I am not in the software business, I am in the business to managing systematic strategy portfolios. Sorry but nothing you said sounds in the slightest convincing.
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Your experience is clearly quite limited if you have not seen major Windows reliability and performance issues yet.

You will when/if you get more experience in larger server environments.
 
a) I did not mean to use Nomads in any condescending way at all, in fact I highly respect the few professionals that use Linux based approaches when the absolute top performance in microsecond realm is called for.

b) command line tools are great when you know all the commands, if you use 20-100 different command line tools I doubt even the most proficient programmer will be able to memorize all commands. You are basically saying intellisense and code completion is inefficient. Sorry but I highly disagree. Sure, if you use single commands once, twice a day, otherwise you end up copy/pasting all over, switches, ....What do you mean with "GUI productivity crap"? Most all commands in Visual Studio, for example, are usable through short-cuts if you wish so. But you have concurrency profilers, code completion, and pretty much all the unit testing is done much more efficiently out of an IDE than through command line tools. Add to that ReSharper and I hardly know a single programmer would argue against the productivity boosts you get with that. So what are you recommending? Using good 'ol C++ command line compilers? ;-)

c) I give it to you, if you operate in microsecond space, need more accurate time keepers and measurement tools, if you need to squeeze the last drop of juice out of sockets, and couple more then yes, Windows OSs add more overhead than Linux. But that is something I mentioned already where Linux has a slight performance advantage. For everything else you can argue as much as you want there is simply no way you code up, profile, unit test, compile, and wrap into install packages faster than with an advanced development IDE. In turn you would probably end up with about 15 command line tools just in order to accomplish the same. Good luck.

Quote from hft_boy:

Haha. I guess I'm mostly used to working on Linux, so I don't know all that .NET has to offer. But the gcc toolchain is quite robust and useful. For me personally, command line tools give a huge boost in productivity over GUI crap. Also there's the capability of tuning the kernel and stuff if need be. Not that it needs to be done every day (if at all) but it lets me sleep a little better at night if you know what I mean.
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typical EliteTrader attitude. Only platitudes, open ended statements and digression into personal attacks. I responded to you in a respectful manner without being personal (I classified your arguments as hogwash and explained in detail why not you as a person). Most banks and hedge funds nowadays run on pure Windows machines, pricing engines, data warehouse servers, matching engines, dma platforms (emphasis on "most" not "all"), so please leave the church in the village here.

Quote from comintel:

Your experience is clearly quite limited if you have not seen major Windows reliability and performance issues yet.

You will when/if you get more experience in larger server environments.
More...
 
Quote from hftvol:

typical EliteTrader attitude. Only platitudes, open ended statements and digression into personal attacks. I responded to you in a respectful manner without being personal (I classified your arguments as hogwash and explained in detail why not you as a person). Most banks and hedge funds nowadays run on pure Windows machines, pricing engines, data warehouse servers, matching engines, dma platforms (emphasis on "most" not "all"), so please leave the church in the village here.
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I would not agree that most *major* banks and hedge funds nowadays run the *majority* of their mission-critical trading apps. on pure Windows machines, pricing engines, data warehouse servers, matching engines, dma platforms (emphasis on "most" not "all").

That is purely a factual question.

(Of course they run some apps. on Windows, and many smaller banks and hedge funds have no clue what they are doing anyway).

Let's get some opinions on that purely factual question.

By the way I made no criticism of you at all. Until one experiences the reliability problems of Windows, one is simply unaware of them - perfectly normal and not a criticism.
 
With reference to the arguments above, I would like to answer the OP's question again. Generally:

1. The C++, Linux, Java guys are smarter & better engineers.

2. The Windows, .NET, VBA guys earn more money, while doing less work.

If you prefer to be in the back room working with dudes from Hyderabad, talking about just how awesome you are, and how cool some new command line tool is, while lighting your farts, then choose #1. You will be working with smarter guys.

If you like working with people, and getting paid, choose #2. You will be working with slicker guys.

Harsh & probably offensive to some, but also true.
 
I can tell you that a major bank I personally know of uses primarily Unix and Java for its production trading platforms.

(There is some Windows and .Net too, but to a much smaller extent).

They hire primarily Java developers (or developers familiar with any other comparable language, such as C#, who can easily switch over to Java).

But it is true that a lot of smaller firms do like to use Windows.
 
Quote from comintel:

I can tell you that a major bank I personally know of uses primarily Unix and Java for its production trading platforms.

(There is some Windows and .Net too but to a much smaller extent).

They hire primarily Java developers (or developers familiar with any other comparable language, such as C#, who can easily switch over to Java).
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Yeah, similar personal experience. Just sayin that the Unix / Java guys are technically better, but economically and strategically worse off than the VBA / Microsoft guys. Have been on both sides of that fence.
 
Quote from Rationalize:

Yeah, similar personal experience. Just sayin that the Unix / Java guys are technically better, but economically and strategically worse off than the VBA / Microsoft guys. Have been on both sides of that fence.
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I would agree that the Windows/.Net platform may be a more practical "broader target" to aim for for someone who currently feels more comfortable with Windows and .Net than with Unix and Java.

.
 
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