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My Path To Success
- Thread starter Lucias
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Quote from Lucias:
It seems that the elitetrader wolves have came out detecting that I'm having a difficult time. But, the elite trader denizens are nothing that I fear. I don't have time to address all the questions/concerns. However, I will add my most prescient reflections.
* I've been at this for over 7 years. For over about 5 years, I've been winning. Indeed, I am one of the best in the world, if not the best at what I do. Does that mean I'm the best trader? Absolutely not. But, it does mean that I am very unlikely to find anyone as good as I am when I set the rules to my LIKING. A lot of people here don't understand there are MANY GAMES in trading. I'm the best in the world at 1 game. I don't claim it is the most profitable game to play or the best game. I don't claim I'm the best at EVERY game in the casino.
Even so, no matter how good I am then it won't make me a dime without funding. If this isn't palatable to your senses then let me share an analogy. Steve Jobs has, for all intents purposes, all the money in the world. No amount of money though has been able to buy him health. I'm sure he'd give up all of his wealth if it would make him healthy.
The average healthy person has health in abundance and no wealth. Likewise, the average trader doesn't have the skills or the capital to be successful. They just immediately assume if they had the skills then they'd have the capital. But, the capital doesn't come from the skills. It comes from selling. Now, I was actually very good at selling in the past when I dedicated myself to that, breathed it, enjoyed it, fought it. However, now I am dedicated to making myself great at trading. It is difficult to pursue 2 performance activities at the same time.
* Isn't it nice that all the great traders here can't show their audited record? I offered a monetary reward for anyone who could produce records that proved they did 3k-4k per month on a 10k account (over a reasonable time). Nobody came forth. So, when i speak about records, I speak about records that I can go and check. Not dream records.
* Some traders say they don't feel they are the best in the world. They don't feel they can be the best. To those, I tell you to get out of this business, get out. Quit now.
* Someone asked about why I didn't continue to update my C2 record. I tell you why because I have a top 7 ranked system. I've only had 1 person really wanting to subscribe. There is no money at C2. I only used the C2 to create an AUDITED record to show to serious investors. Getting subscribers at C2 is not part of my business plan. In fact, I view it as a required liability in a sense because they can subscribe for too little.
I am still updating my quantitative system at c2. I've had several subscribers interested in it. Why the difference? My discretionary system has been tracked longer.
The reason is that people don't make decisions the way you want them too. An investor has a lot more confidence in a systematic method that was both profitable historically and in-real time then a discretionary method. It is very difficult to find any investors that will entertain funding a discretionary trader no matter how great the record. Again, if more of you were actually in the business and trying in this business then you'd soon discover this. Fortunately, my quantitative system has been very strong.
The previous poster is correct, you sound very childish and immature. Reading through many of you posts it appears you have never had success trading real money and thus have never been able to build up any real money capital. You seem to reside in the world of paper trading and the hypothetical. And here is some career advice, check your ego at the door. The really successful traders I have known have been marked by humility not the arrogance you display. I thought I had seen it all until you. The self proclaimed best trader in the world who has never made any money in the real world of real money trading. And you never will because you have a complete lack of emotional intelligence.
Actually Lucias, most everyone here is being quite nice and very realistic in their posts. I think it just isn't what you want to hear. Historically, nobody gives money to an unproven trading program. Any program that uses a hypothetical account is by definition 'unproven'.
IOW, demo accounts are worthless in attracting capital. The only use for them is for you to build your skills without risking real money. They are for testing strategies, not selling them. In fact, you have to be very careful if you want to legally use hypothetical results in marketing a trading program. The CFTC, NFA, and SEC really frown on it and require very specific disclosure if you do.
What I'm saying is that C2 programs ARE NOT AUDITED, as you seem to think they are. These programs you refer to are hypothetical. Auditing is the process of taking your trade statements to an auditing firm and paying them to analyze the stated results for accuracy.
The reason the 'great traders' here won't provide audited results of 30-40% monthly growth is that there are only a handful of great traders here. None of them produce 30-40% monthly consistently. If you actually achieved that, (which you don't) you wouldn't need any backers or investors. Start with $5K and you'll be wildly rich in a couple years.
Anyway, I think my journal comes the closest to fitting your request and provides actual account statements of real trades. That is the best you are going to find here. If I leveraged it the way you do yours, it would produce about 2,000% annual. As it is, it produces 200% annual with a very high sharpe ratio and all other risk metrics are outstanding.
It isn't enough to simply keep telling yourself (and others) that you are the best in the world. You must be able to back it up. You try to defend your position by saying you are only talking about the arena you are trading in. Guess what, my strat operates in that same arena. You are trading against me, and mine is considerably outperforming yours on a consistent basis. Are you the best in the world in even that small corner?
IMO, you are doing yourself a huge disservice by thinking that you must declare your greatness to yourself and others in order to be successful. You seem to think that one has to believe he is the best in the world in order to succeed. That is entirely false. In reality, one of your biggest problems is that your are trading beyond your abilities and it is giving you a wild equity curve. If you ever want to manage significant amounts of money, you must get that under control. No serious investors will ever trust an arrogant cowboy like that with anything but funny money.
IOW, demo accounts are worthless in attracting capital. The only use for them is for you to build your skills without risking real money. They are for testing strategies, not selling them. In fact, you have to be very careful if you want to legally use hypothetical results in marketing a trading program. The CFTC, NFA, and SEC really frown on it and require very specific disclosure if you do.
What I'm saying is that C2 programs ARE NOT AUDITED, as you seem to think they are. These programs you refer to are hypothetical. Auditing is the process of taking your trade statements to an auditing firm and paying them to analyze the stated results for accuracy.
The reason the 'great traders' here won't provide audited results of 30-40% monthly growth is that there are only a handful of great traders here. None of them produce 30-40% monthly consistently. If you actually achieved that, (which you don't) you wouldn't need any backers or investors. Start with $5K and you'll be wildly rich in a couple years.
Anyway, I think my journal comes the closest to fitting your request and provides actual account statements of real trades. That is the best you are going to find here. If I leveraged it the way you do yours, it would produce about 2,000% annual. As it is, it produces 200% annual with a very high sharpe ratio and all other risk metrics are outstanding.
It isn't enough to simply keep telling yourself (and others) that you are the best in the world. You must be able to back it up. You try to defend your position by saying you are only talking about the arena you are trading in. Guess what, my strat operates in that same arena. You are trading against me, and mine is considerably outperforming yours on a consistent basis. Are you the best in the world in even that small corner?
IMO, you are doing yourself a huge disservice by thinking that you must declare your greatness to yourself and others in order to be successful. You seem to think that one has to believe he is the best in the world in order to succeed. That is entirely false. In reality, one of your biggest problems is that your are trading beyond your abilities and it is giving you a wild equity curve. If you ever want to manage significant amounts of money, you must get that under control. No serious investors will ever trust an arrogant cowboy like that with anything but funny money.
Best in the world is a big claim. What history and facts do you have to support this? Equity graphs, trade histories, trade stats would help. Does anyone besides you share your opinion? Most people with world class skills are easily recognized by others that are active in that field.
I predict the market well in advance. As for evidence, there isn't a whole lot. I emailed my original record to a prominent scientist and former long term friend. However, my abilities infuriated him and ended our friendship. I started about 4-5 years ago with guaranteed funding if I demonstrated my ability. Honestly, without the certain belief then I would never have developed my abilities. But, I was promised funding from my best friend, someone with significant capital presumably as well, and so I didn't have any doubts when I started. Of course, it ended badly. He refused to check my record and furthermore I didn't save it. Originally, I worked 50 hours per week every single week. It took about 2 years for me to develop my abilities. I was always somewhat more successful then average though. Due to this bad experience, I have been working hard to get my performance back to what it was. It is very difficult and every year I think: this may be the last year.
As for evidence, my C2 system is in the top 5-7 in long term tracked systems out of 14,000 created systems. I am willing to host a contest if there is sufficient interest that will prove this. I will set the rules. We will create accounts at c2 and see if anyone can outperform me. We can create a moderate entry fee ($500 per entry) and I will put up some bonus on top if I lose (plus my own $500 entry fee). However, we will need somewhat to donate enough money to make the contest worth at least 8k for me to pursue it.
As I noted, I have convinced a new investor that I can predict the market. However, I am having difficulty trading in a way that allows me to leverage beyond 1:1 to 4:1 returns. Likewise, my current abilities are more in the hedge fund space then the proprietary space. My scalping ability and trading off the DOM is only break even, so far. I'm primarily working on adding size and developing new edges. Basically, I'm having trouble trading the way he wants. But, I treat this as an experiment and so it is a learning experience and rather humbling too. Let me add, I haven't put in enough work to know if this is the final outcome or just a result that I'm only trading using the DOM.
A lot of the frustration that is coming out is due to the frustration of this experimentation. My current goal is to move down to the smaller time frame and also to build larger size.. both are proving challenging.
I agree baggerlord. It takes an expert to know an expert. There are only a very few expert traders in the world. I'll add I'm referring to my discretionary ability. The best (open record) quantitative traders I've found can do up to 4:1, as well. But, I will compete against any system, as well provided I set the rules. I'm defining "best" as best trading within the rules and methods I specify. I am not defining best as returning the absolute most return or having the best methods. I think that maybe is a key difference that some people are overlooking.
As for evidence, my C2 system is in the top 5-7 in long term tracked systems out of 14,000 created systems. I am willing to host a contest if there is sufficient interest that will prove this. I will set the rules. We will create accounts at c2 and see if anyone can outperform me. We can create a moderate entry fee ($500 per entry) and I will put up some bonus on top if I lose (plus my own $500 entry fee). However, we will need somewhat to donate enough money to make the contest worth at least 8k for me to pursue it.
As I noted, I have convinced a new investor that I can predict the market. However, I am having difficulty trading in a way that allows me to leverage beyond 1:1 to 4:1 returns. Likewise, my current abilities are more in the hedge fund space then the proprietary space. My scalping ability and trading off the DOM is only break even, so far. I'm primarily working on adding size and developing new edges. Basically, I'm having trouble trading the way he wants. But, I treat this as an experiment and so it is a learning experience and rather humbling too. Let me add, I haven't put in enough work to know if this is the final outcome or just a result that I'm only trading using the DOM.
A lot of the frustration that is coming out is due to the frustration of this experimentation. My current goal is to move down to the smaller time frame and also to build larger size.. both are proving challenging.
I agree baggerlord. It takes an expert to know an expert. There are only a very few expert traders in the world. I'll add I'm referring to my discretionary ability. The best (open record) quantitative traders I've found can do up to 4:1, as well. But, I will compete against any system, as well provided I set the rules. I'm defining "best" as best trading within the rules and methods I specify. I am not defining best as returning the absolute most return or having the best methods. I think that maybe is a key difference that some people are overlooking.
Quote from baggerlord:
Best in the world is a big claim. What history and facts do you have to support this? Equity graphs, trade histories, trade stats would help. Does anyone besides you share your opinion? Most people with world class skills are easily recognized by others that are active in that field.
Anyway, I'm very tired of talking about my abilities. So, I'm finished with that discussion.
What was Steve Jobs great at? Some people will say, he was great at coming up with innovative new ideas. But, really he was great at selling. He sold a tablet PC without the tablet functionality, i.e without the ability to use a stylus. He sells slower computers for a higher price then his competitor. There is the perception and the reality.
What was Microsoft really great at? Building great products? No! They built crappy products. But, they were great at continually improving the crappy products. They were great at taking other people great ideas and making them better by brute force.
It reminds me of what Felix Denis said, if you execute well enough then you can take almost any idea and make a solid product. Execute a great idea poorly and you are left with something wanting.
What was Steve Jobs great at? Some people will say, he was great at coming up with innovative new ideas. But, really he was great at selling. He sold a tablet PC without the tablet functionality, i.e without the ability to use a stylus. He sells slower computers for a higher price then his competitor. There is the perception and the reality.
What was Microsoft really great at? Building great products? No! They built crappy products. But, they were great at continually improving the crappy products. They were great at taking other people great ideas and making them better by brute force.
It reminds me of what Felix Denis said, if you execute well enough then you can take almost any idea and make a solid product. Execute a great idea poorly and you are left with something wanting.
Quote from Lucias:
I agree baggerlord. It takes an expert to know an expert. There are only a very few expert traders in the world. I'll add I'm referring to my discretionary ability. The best (open record) quantitative traders I've found can do up to 4:1, as well. But, I will compete against any system, as well provided I set the rules. I'm defining "best" as best trading within the rules and methods I specify. I am not defining best as returning the absolute most return or having the best methods. I think that maybe is a key difference that some people are overlooking.
Don't think anyone is overlooking anything. Already made my case that it is pretty hard to convince anyone that you are the best in the world when every metric that I can think of says that you aren't even better than me. And I don't consider myself hte best in the world.
We trade the same instruments and it sounds like we have similar frequency. You can define 'best' however you want, but in the end it is just to boost your self-confidence.
I define best as being #1 in all standard metrics.
1-year returns
2-year returns
5-year returns
10-year returns
Sharpe Ratio
CAGR
Max DD
Recovery Period
Etc....
epic.. sorry you may be very good. I don't know your record. I just have never met anyone with my ability. Again, if you or anyone else is willing to put up 7k to 8k and play by my rules then I'm willing to put it to the test with a 3 month competition , as well as put my own capital on the line (up to around $800 to $1,000).
Maybe you or Bone or some other elite hog here can put the money up. I don't care too talk about it though unless I can make money from it.
Thanks. This comp would be open to anyone to prove me wrong including Bone.. including all the great traders here. And because we use C2 then everyone would be open for the world to see.
If no money in it then it really doesn't matter. if it bothers you then maybe you'd prefer to think I feel I'm at best at this game (instead of the best) because often that is more accurate as to how I feel. Although, I can't deny the other statement, either.
Cheers.
(If you are indeed as good as me then it is a pleasure to meet you: never met anyone with my abilities. There was an interesting character Mr. Owens though.. but that's another story.)
Maybe you or Bone or some other elite hog here can put the money up. I don't care too talk about it though unless I can make money from it.
Thanks. This comp would be open to anyone to prove me wrong including Bone.. including all the great traders here. And because we use C2 then everyone would be open for the world to see.
If no money in it then it really doesn't matter. if it bothers you then maybe you'd prefer to think I feel I'm at best at this game (instead of the best) because often that is more accurate as to how I feel. Although, I can't deny the other statement, either.
Cheers.
(If you are indeed as good as me then it is a pleasure to meet you: never met anyone with my abilities. There was an interesting character Mr. Owens though.. but that's another story.)
Quote from Epic:
Don't think anyone is overlooking anything. Already made my case that it is pretty hard to convince anyone that you are the best in the world when every metric that I can think of says that you aren't even better than me. And I don't consider myself hte best in the world.
We trade the same instruments and it sounds like we have similar frequency. You can define 'best' however you want, but in the end it is just to boost your self-confidence.
I define best as being #1 in all standard metrics.
1-year returns
2-year returns
5-year returns
10-year returns
Sharpe Ratio
CAGR
Max DD
Recovery Period
Etc....
Lucias, scary, real scary. You have done nothing with real money on the line. Hypothetical proves nothing, absolutely nothing. If you truly had any abilities you would have traded a small real money account into a much larger one by now. Instead, you pester everybody to fund you with a larger stake. I pity the poor soul that falls prey to your delusions of grandeur.
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