My message to Romney

Tsing Tao · Sep 21, 2012

Quote from Brass:

Anyone who actually watched it and disagrees with the content of the video is just a bag of piss & vinegar seeking expression and spoiling for a fight. Seek therapy.

I watched the video. It is not an apology, and there wasn't anything wrong with the video at all. The issue comes in why it was created, not the words used in it. You would never have seen this administration make a video to appease angry Catholics over a similarly created film that poked fun at Christianity (for an example). It's only being done to placate angry Muslims - and I understand why, because it is the Muslim world going ape shit over the film and the Muslim world that is bringing violence as the answer to it.

The root of the issue, however, is that the muslim world behaves like animals (generally speaking) and as a result, we are put into situations like this and have to respond accordingly.

The below video is an excellent interview where Wafa Sultan does a phenomenal job explaining why we are where we are.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ISNpOkpcWqg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Brass · Sep 21, 2012

Wow, that was an excellent video you posted, Tsing. I agree with the woman's sentiment entirely. And it needs to be said. And it needs to be heard by Muslims. But it is not something that a Westerner can say to them in the same way that you will accept deep criticism from a family member but not from a stranger towards whom you are hostile, no matter how true that criticism may be. Obama couldn't possibly utter those words and hope for conciliation with the Middle East. He did what he could in an effort to restore calm. When cooler heads prevail, then people like this woman must take center stage and drive the ball home. Again and again. Agreed?

CaptainObvious · Sep 21, 2012

Quote from Tsing Tao:
The below video is an excellent interview where Wafa Sultan does a phenomenal job explaining why we are where we are.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ISNpOkpcWqg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> [/B]

Thanks for sharing this video. I am quite impressed with this woman.

RCG Trader · Sep 21, 2012

Quote from Tsing Tao:

I watched the video. It is not an apology, and there wasn't anything wrong with the video at all. The issue comes in why it was created, not the words used in it. You would never have seen this administration make a video to appease angry Catholics over a similarly created film that poked fun at Christianity (for an example). It's only being done to placate angry Muslims - and I understand why, because it is the Muslim world going ape shit over the film and the Muslim world that is bringing violence as the answer to it.

The root of the issue, however, is that the muslim world behaves like animals (generally speaking) and as a result, we are put into situations like this and have to respond accordingly.

The below video is an excellent interview where Wafa Sultan does a phenomenal job explaining why we are where we are.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ISNpOkpcWqg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In others it is a clash between the conservatives of that culture, and the liberals of that culture.

Tsing Tao · Sep 21, 2012

Quote from Brass:

Wow, that was an excellent video you posted, Tsing. I agree with the woman's sentiment entirely. And it needs to be said. And it needs to be heard by Muslims. But it is not something that a Westerner can say to them in the same way that you will accept deep criticism from a family member but not from a stranger towards whom you are hostile, no matter how true that criticism may be. Obama couldn't possibly utter those words and hope for conciliation with the Middle East. He did what he could in an effort to restore calm. When cooler heads prevail, then people like this woman must take center stage and drive the ball home. Again and again. Agreed?

100% agreed. Obama cannot possibly be expected to utter those words without a complete retaliation from the muslim world, true or not. It has to come from someone within their culture.

CaptainObvious · Sep 21, 2012

Quote from Tsing Tao:

100% agreed. Obama cannot possibly be expected to utter those words without a complete retaliation from the muslim world, true or not. It has to come from someone within their culture.

But Obama claimed he was the one with the magic words that would usher in a new era of peace. He would be better off altogether if he just kept his mouth shut rather than try to explain why a video was made.
Yes, these words spoken by this woman must be heard from someone within their culture, someone with a hell of a lot more stroke than she has. Until their leadership takes such a position, the violence will continue and I don't see a single person in any position of authority

Brass · Sep 21, 2012

Also, notice how, when she said she was secular and didn't believe in the supernatural, the "holy" guy in the funny hat accused her of being a heretic and therefore no further discussion was worth his time? We have a fair amount of that mentality on this side of the pond, too.

RCG Trader · Sep 21, 2012

Quote from Brass:

Also, notice how, when she said she was secular and didn't believe in the supernatural, the "holy" guy in the funny hat accused her of being a heretic and therefore no further discussion was worth his time? We have a fair amount of that mentaility on this side of the pond, too.

The difference over there versus over here is that liberals have been winning over here, conservatives are winning over there. Conservatives win over there because they have a defacto theocracy in place, and the President cannot call out tanks when nutbirds hang women in public. The conservative Imams have too much power.

RCG Trader · Sep 21, 2012

Quote from CaptainObvious:

But Obama claimed he was the one with the magic words that would usher in a new era of peace. He would be better off altogether if he just kept his mouth shut rather than try to explain why a video was made.
Yes, these words spoken by this woman must be heard from someone within their culture, someone with a hell of a lot more stroke than she has. Until their leadership takes such a position, the violence will continue and I don't see a single person in any position of authority

History shows us that eras of peace do not start out overnight, it will take time, but one must start somewhere.

Brass · Sep 21, 2012

Quote from CaptainObvious:

But Obama claimed he was the one with the magic words that would usher in a new era of peace. He would be better off altogether if he just kept his mouth shut rather than try to explain why a video was made.
Yes, these words spoken by this woman must be heard from someone within their culture, someone with a hell of a lot more stroke than she has. Until their leadership takes such a position, the violence will continue and I don't see a single person in any position of authority

See, Tsing, the Cap'n has gone feral.

Obama needed to calm the waters by distinguishing between the freedom of speech and the freedom of religion. The Middle East doesn't quite share those freedoms and they don't necessarily like it being shoved down their throat in their own home. The Internet brings it to their door. When you want to enact change, you have a better chance of doing it with baby steps than with one fell swoop. Maturity and emotional intelligence dictate that you empathize with the person with whom you are trying to negotiate a beneficial solution. If you don't see it from his side, he sure won't make the effort to see it from yours. So who will be the better man and take the first step? Oh, look. It was Obama. Not Romney, who was ready to get into their faces.

As for not seeing a single person in any position of authority echoing this fine woman's words, remember that real change happens at the grass roots. The West must keep cultivating those grass roots.