My issue about AMP

[ballsofgold]

listen man, you clearly don't have an account so don't even talk to me about it, you are not qualified to speak.

fca regulators are doing their job which means fca regulated firms still doing biz need to comply, this is a positive not a negative.

to answer your question how they get around the conflict of interest, is that their bid/ask has to move inline with market, if it didnt, they would be slammed and fined, they wouldnt have a business

you think traders are dumb? they cant see if they are being picked off?

i just told you that i compare dma to ig side by side and most of nearly all the time pricing is fine. when markets go nuts, they widen the spread which is an isssue but that is a function of otc trading, banks do it all the time. i know bc i worked at 2 banks. it is just a normal otc model bc it is the otherside of trade....when they the market makers gets slammed, they stop talking on liquidity.

they clearly have an algo
if you are profitable, they hedge you around their core position

if you arent profitable, they let you kill yourself and dont need to hedge or skew prices

sometimes they increase mininum size to deter trading

this is fine as long as their pricing stays consistent, but admittedly, there are things to be careful about

as a trader, i dont rely on one broker for one thing. if you had a way to day trade making money and not pay taxes, you would do it too. there are other forums where people tried spreadbetting full time to take advantage rather than paying capital gains tax.

rjo uk gives you direct access to cfd's then clears a spread bet wrapper in your account tax free

i hate that you uneducated punks are trying to kill good things for traders rather than make it better

 

[ballsofgold]

Why is it that we Americans cannot trade spread-bets (CFDs)?

If it is a great place to learn, why are we not allowed to engage in that market? Over-burdening mommy-state regulators, or protective measures to stop USA folks from falling for another scam?

bc it is tax free and IG would need to ensure guys are fatca compliant, need to fill out additional tax work to trade US stocks

IRS deters it bc it will take biz away from exchanges and they want to tax you on everything

the UK hmrc knows that most traders lose so they rather tax IG than daytraders, plus if you tax daytraders than you have to let them roll losses or offset losses vs other income...so just simplify it and make it tax free

 

[ballsofgold]

IG is one of the worst CFD broker despite their blablabla capitalization and safety rules for your funds. I tried them for a while, but all their platforms freeze or have malfunction). Sometimes you are not able to close your position for 10/20 minutes.
85% of CFD traders are newbies and lose money

Generally speaking you have to stay away from all these bucket shops

https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-reviews/109/ig-forex-brokers

https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/community/forums/scam-alerts.30/

IC markets is a big Australian Broker with high rates on trustpilot fake reviews

https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/community/threads/ic-markets-scam-43-450-loss.65348/

https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/comm...ders-who-lost-money-unfairly-join-here.65292/

In short, if you are a profitable trader they tend to stop your trading with problems with your platform. Unable to close your position, freeze ect.
If you lose money all works fine....

fortunately for me, i don't rely on random people on the internet, i have accounts at cmc and ig and i am fine with the pricing. i can see the pricing for myself. i have never had platform issues with their online platform for spreadbetting. i dont use their metatrader

they are not without issues...sure they widen spreads when everyone is going the same way, sometimes they skew positions if they havent hedged in time but for the liquid stuff their pricing is in line. when the markets. go nuts, sometimes they shut off feeds for certain markets. so, if you are able to make money everyday day trading, then don't use IG, go direct to exchange

but for swing trading or needing a place to watch many markets or do some testing in small size it is great

i've held big swing trades there or when i have an options trade in my futures account and i want to delta hedge in small size it is perfect


i am done talking about this, to each thier own

 

[ballsofgold]

Well that's the problem with the OTC model. Without centralized exchanges, traders are at the complete mercy of the brokers who are also the market makers who And FYI Interactive Brokers do not use payment for order flow.

And FYI Interactive Brokers do not use payment for order flow.

yes they do, if you choose their 0 commission model under lite package then it goes to 3rd party market maker

again, you dont know what you are talking about

done talking to you

 

[ballsofgold]

here is attachment

 

[JSOP]

they are not without issues...sure they widen spreads when everyone is going the same way, sometimes they skew positions if they havent hedged in time but for the liquid stuff their pricing is in line. when the markets. go nuts, sometimes they shut off feeds for certain markets.

You know why they do that? Cuz they don't want their clients to make money at their expense because they are the other side of their clients' transactions, typical behaviour of market maker brokers that operate like casinos. Market maker forex brokers have been operating like this since the beginning. And IG and CMC are actually one of the largest forex brokers as well. They are the ones who literally invented this system. I guess they are just diversifying it to spread betting seeing that everybody is getting educated about the pitfalls of market making brokers in forex.

so, if you are able to make money everyday day trading, then don't use IG, go direct to exchange

EVERYBODY should be trading on central exchanges otherwise you will never make any money, whether it's daytrading or swing trading and no matter how small the account size. LOL

 

[JSOP]

yes they do, if you choose their 0 commission model under lite package then it goes to 3rd party market maker

again, you dont know what you are talking about

done talking to you

That is STILL not the same as a complete OTC model where the orders are internalized by the same broker that the clients have their accounts with!! Order under payment for order flows at least are executed by 3RD PARTY specialists, 3RD PARTY!!! And besides that is fully disclosed.

Where is the disclosure of all the spread betting brokers that they trade against their clients and profit at their expense??

You don't want to talk to me because I know what I am talking about and I called you out. I am glad I am given this chance to expose spread betting brokers though so new traders like OP wouldn't fall victim to them.

Good riddance and good luck!!

 

[ballsofgold]

dude, you have no clue. Seriously.

i don't know why i am wasting my time with you but I can't blame you for your lack of education. You clearly are not a trader.

IG and CMC did not invent the model. The model was created by the banks. IG democratized it by offering it to retail traders.

Firstly the thread was about indices, but let's talk FX. The OTC market is bigger than the exchange traded market. As I said, I worked for two banks as a market maker, tier 1 and tier2, so I know all about the rate fixes and the games that banks used to play. so the fact that you are saying that the only way to trade on the exchange,again, is another false statement.

If a hammer fund comes and lifts you for 5 yards of yen and lines up all the banks at the same, if that fund comes back for more, the banks widen the quote bc they know a client is shark hunting. They go in on their bloomberg and reuters chats even say, i was just lifted in size, they share the info. This is the OTC game, if you don't like it then step off. It's no different from IG. If they get lifted in size, they can't keep taking the otherside of the trade, so sometimes they widen the spreads until they've properly hedged themselves. Every professional trader understands this. Why do big funds and asset managers use OTC rather than the exchange, bc sometimes they don't want to deal with having 1 million prices to execute using the exchange when calculating their NAV in their funds. They get one price from the bank. It makes clearing easier. You have no understanding of the merits between otc and exchange trading, bc then we have to go into the services that leverage into prime brokerage for these large trading outfits.

IG is not your broker, they are a market maker. You are not client, you are a counterparty.

They don't give a rats a$$ if you make or lose money. The want as many people trading so they can get their bid/ask crossed. That's where they win. To say that they want people to fail makes absolutley no sense bc the client pool will cannobolise itself. They want peopple trading to cross their bid/ask, to increase liquidity. If you are profitable, they hedge themselves in the market, do you get it? So they don't care if you win or lose. If you are a bad trader, then they don't need to do anything. To say that the want clients to fail makes absolutly no sense. In essense, they are just like any other market maker.

If the market gets skewed, there is a dealer who needs to watch to hedge their core position in the interbank market. So they will always be slightly wider than interbank, otherwise, they have no business. When they turn off the price feeds, they don't let you open new positions but they let you close existing ones when they need to square their books.

Whether or not, they have algos to track the profitable traders to hedge immediately in the interbank market is just a guess, but i am sure they have it.

The fact of the matter is, spread betting is here to stay because people want a way to punt easy and tax free. for you to say it's is corrupt is not a matter of fact, but opinion --> a misinformed opinion and you are ruining it for the clients who benefit from the model.

As for IB routing for order flow in stocks, again, it's a matter of opinion but you are misinformed. While maybe IB is idemnified, i don't care about IB, i caare about the 3rd party market marker and that the price is fair and inline.

If the same market maker is giving me the same pricing, then i can use him the same time as many times as possible. All that matters is the price. so in essence, it' s no different when IG or IB 3rd party MM does it. someone is taking the other side of your trade. Maybe it's better with IB bc they have more than one market maker. HOWEVER, depending on how you trade, you may be willing to give up an extra tick to save money on taxes which can be anywhere from 20-40% depending your situation.

A lot of factors depend on this, including the holding period of your trade. Also, if you need a tigther market in order to be profitable, then it doesn't make sense even chasing a tax free benefit.

So while I can continue to educate you the matter, for the person asking for advice, it's a great place to start trading with $1000 in capital. Learn your craft and then move on as you need to

 

[JSOP]

First of all, I thought you are gone? LOL

done talking to you

What are you still doing here talking about things that you have no idea about?

dude, you have no clue. Seriously.

i don't know why i am wasting my time with you but I can't blame you for your lack of education. You clearly are not a trader.

IG and CMC did not invent the model. The model was created by the banks. IG democratized it by offering it to retail traders.

Firstly the thread was about indices, but let's talk FX. The OTC market is bigger than the exchange traded market. As I said, I worked for two banks as a market maker, tier 1 and tier2, so I know all about the rate fixes and the games that banks used to play. so the fact that you are saying that the only way to trade on the exchange,again, is another false statement.

Second, the thread is not about indices. It's about somebody who wants to find an alternative broker that would accept him as a client to trade US futures, a product that is traded on highly regulated central exchanges and you just hijacked it by suggesting for him to trade spread-betting which is traded OTC where prices are determined by negotiations and small traders like OP would hardly have any say in the prices. The casino market making model that's operated in retail forex market is totally different from the interbank forex market. First of all, the interbank forex market, there is actual foreign currency exchanges that actually took place whereas the retail forex market is just a "proxy" of the interbank market. If you really worked for banks, you would know that. And this "proxy" of the interbank market was exactly invented by forex brokers like CMC, IG and etc. to operate at the "retail" forex market really in the form of CFD. They set the price, they set the spread, they set everything to trade against the clients and profit at the traders' expense. There is no "democratizing" of anything. They invented it because they saw that's a way to make money off unsuspecting traders all under the pretense of the glamour of participating in the "interbank foreign exchange market" when in fact there is no participating in the interbank foreign exchange market at all. The "retail forex" is completely separate from the "interbank foreign exchange" or the "real" foreign exchange. And there is NO central exchanges in foreign exchanges. The term foreign exchange is an oxymoron. The entire interbank foreign exchange is done OTC. So I don't know why you keep referring to "exchange traded market".

If a hammer fund comes and lifts you for 5 yards of yen and lines up all the banks at the same, if that fund comes back for more, the banks widen the quote bc they know a client is shark hunting. They go in on their bloomberg and reuters chats even say, i was just lifted in size, they share the info. This is the OTC game, if you don't like it then step off. It's no different from IG. If they get lifted in size, they can't keep taking the otherside of the trade, so sometimes they widen the spreads until they've properly hedged themselves. Every professional trader understands this. Why do big funds and asset managers use OTC rather than the exchange, bc sometimes they don't want to deal with having 1 million prices to execute using the exchange when calculating their NAV in their funds. They get one price from the bank. It makes clearing easier. You have no understanding of the merits between otc and exchange trading, bc then we have to go into the services that leverage into prime brokerage for these large trading outfits.

That's the interbank forex market. That has nothing to do with the "retail forex market" which like I said is completely separate and has no connection to the interbank market that everybody thinks they are participating in.

IG is not your broker, they are a market maker. You are not client, you are a counterparty.

They don't give a rats a$$ if you make or lose money. The want as many people trading so they can get their bid/ask crossed. That's where they win. To say that they want people to fail makes absolutley no sense bc the client pool will cannobolise itself. They want peopple trading to cross their bid/ask, to increase liquidity. If you are profitable, they hedge themselves in the market, do you get it? So they don't care if you win or lose. If you are a bad trader, then they don't need to do anything. To say that the want clients to fail makes absolutly no sense. In essense, they are just like any other market maker.

If the market gets skewed, there is a dealer who needs to watch to hedge their core position in the interbank market. So they will always be slightly wider than interbank, otherwise, they have no business.

Whether or not, they have algos to track the profitable traders to hedge immediately in the interbank market is just a guess, but i am sure they have it.

The fact of the matter is, spread betting is here to stay because people want a way to punt easy and tax free. for you to say it's is corrupt is not a matter of fact, but opinion --> a misinformed opinion and you are ruining it for the clients who benefit from the model.

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Ah yes, IG IS your broker. When you spread bet, you open an account with IG and IG becomes your broker. And since there is NO central exchanges where everybody goes in to trade on forex at retail level, and you just said, IG is the market maker, guess who you trade against when you do the spread betting? So WHY would they want you to win if they are the ones who just traded against you? They are not earning any commissions otherwise. The only compensation that they are getting is profit and where do you think they are getting that from? Is there any coincidence that 76% of the retail traders lose in spread betting? Check what's the loss rate of clients trade in regulated markets like stock markets or even futures market and then tell me if spread betting is still the best place for somebody to learn.

You are either very naive (one day you will wake up from their scam after having lost all your money and you will realize I am right) or you are working for one of those spread betting outfits trying to lure in unsuspecting traders which you are not allowed to do here.

Anyway I hope OP is opening an account to trade financial products on regulated central exchanges.

 

[ballsofgold]

you are confused bc you don't understand the market making model, it's fine, i get it, you don't have a top down understanding of market structure

when i mean broker, i mean they are not acting in Agency capacity.

if they are are trading against you, they are taking the other side of your trade, they are not brokering they are market making

There are exchange traded futures on ice and cme and other exchanges, banks have aribtrage positions in the cash market against the futures markets. again this is the 3rd misfact that you've stated. https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/fx/

1.) first you said IB doesn't route orders, this was wrong
2.) then you said that there isn't a futures exchange for FX, that is wrong
3.) in the OTC market, there is no exchange, it goes on a platform like EBS but banks need to have bilateral agreements with each other to trade on EBS or they go direct via bloomberg and reuters --> again the 3rd wrong thing you have said today


i already said that IG are quoting you and hegding in the interbank market and that the bid/ask spread is slightly wider than interbank, so yes it's a proxy, i already said that/ what is your point? why are you taking what i said and acting like i didn't say it? That's the essence of being a market maker, your quote to the client is not the actual market but a proxy. That's the essence of having an OTC market. The OTC market structure is:

1st level Bank to Bank (interbank)
2nd level Bank to Client
3rd level Dark Pools, multi-lateral trading facilities

This is how the goldman and morgan stanleys of the worlds rake in millions, are they running scams? NO, they have OTC trading desks direct with clients in fx, stocks and bonds...It's the same with IG

I just explained to you 10 x how it works. Their price is wider than the real market.
If you are a profitable trader, they hedge your trades and lock in a few points and are flat.
If you are not profitable, then they don't do anything and benefit from liqudity, client pool crossing the bid/ask. So they don't care if you win or lose. A market makers wants as a many clients to trade as possible. That's why market makers pay RObinhood for order flow, you clearly don't get it. The clients find benefit in the OTC model, so they continue to use it. You keep ignoring the fact that spreadbetting is tax free or when robinhood trading commission free


The guy said he wanted to trade indices, bc he got rejected by AMP, he can start off small at IG.
IB is 2 tics wide in indices, if he can't make money in that, then he won't make money trading with a 1 tick/bid ask. I mentioned indices bc there are micro contracts on indices, that's what he is asking for