MSO: Halted & Guilty

rgelite,

We might have to agree to disagree if only for lack of sufficient hours to continue the discussion! (Which is exactly the argument that Turok is making for regulations: at some point practical issues trump all others.) Perhaps I'll post more on it tomorrow.

We certainly have common ground with respect to AR. I've read everything she's written. I heard her speak at her last Ford Hall Forum appearance. She has been an inspiration and one of the major influences on my thought.

However, at this point a bigger influence on my thinking is my interest in dynamic systems. For example, the idea that self-organization and emergent behavior occur at the "edge of chaos", an idea proposed and studied by physicists including J. Doyne Farmer, Norman Packard, Chris Langton and Stuart Kauffman, and popularized in books such as Complexity by Waldrop. The edge of chaos is a sort of phase transition or "sweet spot" between systems whose rules are too rigid and systems whose rules are too loose - between overregulation and anarchy. Life seems to thrive at the edge of chaos, and by implication societies do too.

The more I study this stuff, the less I hew to an extreme libertarian/AR worldview. I used to see only the reasons for maximizing individual freedom; now I'm also seeing the reasons for the rules and interconnectedness.

That's getting philosophical enough for one night. :)
 
I don't why she's guilty if others are worse than her like RAND, DAVID vice president of dead MFNX on Nasdaq 100 who filled for bankruptcy but before this is the insider trades of

RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President
Metromedia Fiber Network Inc
NasdaqNM:MFNX

http://www.dotcomeon.com/mfnx_rand_insider_trades.html

David Rand - Transactions Reported in Year 2000
Date Who Shares
Stock Transaction
22-Nov-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 26,919
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $14.36/Share.
Proceeds of $329,228.
21-Nov-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 26,918
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $16.69/Share.
Proceeds of $391,956.
7-Nov-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 20,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at $2.13/Share and Sold at $21.81/Share.
Proceeds of $393,600.
3-Nov-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 10,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at $2.28/Share and Sold at $21.46/Share.
Proceeds of $191,800.
3-Nov-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 1,750
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $2.58/Share.
Paper gain of $33,329 at a fair market value of $21.62/share on 3-Nov-00.
3-Nov-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 8,250
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $11.10/Share.
Paper gain of $86,831 at a fair market value of $21.62/share on 3-Nov-00.
3-Nov-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 97,857
MFNX (CLASS A) Proposed Sale (Form 144).
Estimated proceeds of $2,100,000.
31-Aug-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 30,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $37.05/Share.
Proceeds of $1,047,650.
28-Aug-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 20,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $37.05/Share.
Proceeds of $698,325.
25-Aug-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 20,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $36.56/Share.
Proceeds of $688,700.
24-Aug-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 20,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Sold at $34.75 -- $35.06/Share.
Proceeds of $697,825.
24-Aug-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 20,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $2.13/Share.
Paper gain of $673,650 at a fair market value of $35.81/share on 24-Aug-00.
23-Aug-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 20,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $34.38/Share.
Proceeds of $644,975.
22-Aug-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 20,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $35.20/Share.
Proceeds of $661,500.
21-Aug-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 20,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $35.09/Share.
Proceeds of $659,171.
18-Aug-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 10,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $2.58/Share.
Paper gain of $316,700 at a fair market value of $34.25/share on 18-Aug-00.
9-Jun-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 5,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $37.56/Share.
Proceeds of $177,160.
8-Jun-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 5,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $37.74/Share.
Proceeds of $178,040.
7-Jun-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 5,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $36.70/Share.
Proceeds of $172,850.
6-Jun-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 5,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $2.13/Share.
Paper gain of $171,850 at a fair market value of $36.50/share on 6-Jun-00.
5-Jun-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 5,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at $2.13/Share and Sold at $38.00/Share.
Proceeds of $179,350.
5-Jun-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 5,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Sold at $39.75 -- $40.63/Share.
Proceeds of $199,655.
2-Jun-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 25,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $2.13/Share and Sold at $39.58/Share.
Proceeds of $936,150.
2-Jun-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 50,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Proposed Sale (Form 144).
Estimated proceeds of $2,000,000.
13-Apr-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 10,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Sold at $55.00 -- $58.75/Share.
Proceeds of $573,458.
13-Apr-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 4,010
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $0.17/Share.
Cost of $681.70.
13-Apr-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 5,990
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $0.51/Share.
Cost of $3,055.
12-Apr-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 5,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Sold at $58.00 -- $59.63/Share.
Proceeds of $294,772.
12-Apr-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 5,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $0.17/Share.
Cost of $850.00.
11-Apr-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 7,500
MFNX (CLASS A) Sold at $65.00 -- $66.00/Share.
Proceeds of $491,561.
11-Apr-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 7,500
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $0.17/Share.
Cost of $1,275.
10-Apr-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 7,500
MFNX (CLASS A) Exercised Options at Average of $0.17/Share and Sold at $75.78/Share.
Proceeds of $567,041.
29-Mar-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 10,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Gave as Gift.
Value of $947,500.
29-Mar-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 10,260
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $0.05/Share.
Paper gain of $971,622 at a fair market value of $94.75/share on 29-Mar-00.
29-Mar-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 9,740
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $0.17/Share.
Paper gain of $921,209 at a fair market value of $94.75/share on 29-Mar-00.
24-Mar-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 25,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Sold at $97.50 -- $99.50/Share.
Proceeds of $2,465,830.
24-Mar-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 25,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Acquired Shares via Exercise of Options at $0.17/Share.
Paper gain of $2,447,312 at a fair market value of $98.06/share on 24-Mar-00.
24-Mar-00 RAND, DAVID
Director, Senior Vice President 55,000
MFNX (CLASS A) Proposed Sale (Form 144).
Estimated proceeds of $5,335,000.
 
Quote from steve46:

Personnally, I think Martha will be going to jail for several years at least. Each count carries a max term of 5 years. Also this is a federal court and so the judge must comply with sentencing guidelines (not a lot of wiggle room there). She will need to adjust to a different cuisine. Incredible that all this is happening because she (formely a billionaire) wanted to save sixty thousand bucks!!!!! Wow!!!
More...

The irony is she saved the $60k perfectly legally - she has been convicted of lying about the circumstances surrounding the sale, rather than the stock sale itself being illegal.

So it's not even greed, just pure stupidity. Lesson - if the government/police ask you anything at all, don't say a word, even if you are innocent of any crime!
 
Quote from Cutten:

The irony is she saved the $60k perfectly legally - she has been convicted of lying about the circumstances surrounding the sale, rather than the stock sale itself being illegal.

So it's not even greed, just pure stupidity. Lesson - if the government/police ask you anything at all, don't say a word, even if you are innocent of any crime!
More...

This has 'pure stupidity' written all over.... and her lawyers took it as that and lost big time....from begining to end...they dont charge her for the crime yet they can send her to prison for lying about something they didnt charge her with....I may be way wrong because i didnt study the case nor am I a lawyer or even smart ...somebody dropped the ball on this one....
 
Quote from rgelite:

http://capmag.com/article.asp?id=2130
More...

This is from this article:

A day-trader who bought the same ImClone shares sold by insiders (on December 28th or in the days prior) easily could have turned around and sold them the very next trading day (December 31th) -- after the FDA announcement was widely-known -- at a 13% (one-day) loss. Is the SEC trying to protect day traders? Those are the only discernable "losers" who could have "suffered" at the hands of the Waksals.
More...

Is this guy really saying that a trader who bought the shares from the Waksals would only be hurt by the tune of 13% so therefore it is no big deal? If so, why doesn't he mention that the Waksals could have waited those few days before selling and taken the 13% hit themselves? I suppose it comes down to whether you agree with insider trading laws or not (I do).
 
Quote from waggie945:

Martha Stewart said that she didn't remember her phone call with Sam Waksul. The Jury didn't believe her, nor did the Feds.

Her crime was lying to the Feds.
Not insider trading.

There's a difference.
More...

The feds lied to the courts about the non-existent "stock fraud" and insider trading charges. How come they aren't going to jail?

And how come Clinton is not in jail right now? Why didn't Nixon rot behind bars? Reagan? Both Bushes? They all lied to the feds, congress, the courts, the public.

The difference is that Stewart lied about a perfectly legal and moral act. The prosecutors and the presidents lied about either illegal or immoral acts.

So, the logically inescapable conclusion is that the prosecutors and the presidents should go to jail for at least 1 day longer than Stewart does.
 
One more point - should the prosecution be sued for handing losses to MSO shareholders? Or destroying the jobs of employees? After all, these people are innocent of any crime, just regular Joes and Janes trying to earn a living. Why should they suffer just to boost some prosecutors career prospects?

How come the Martha bashers go on about morality and the fairness of the system, when the result of the prosecution they support is for normal people to unfairly have their livelihoods taken away? What would you guys say, if faced by an about-to-be-fired MSO employee and their family?
 
My prediction is $10 for Monday opening......my prediction for next weeks closing price is 7 bucks.....after all the big funds dump their shares
 
Me:
>I just want to take a leak without the building falling on
>me. This requires teeth that is difficult to duplicate outside
>of government.

Rg:
>Not necessarily. It only requires the "teeth" of the
>government the first few times.

I don't follow your logic here at all. If the government says "OK folks the 'first few times' this happens we are going to sink our teeth into you, but after that we will no longer be involved" you don't think that after the teeth are gone things don't return to normal? C'mon...we're trader here -- we epitomize a culture that quickly adapts to changing environments and regulations.

>Soon, everyone will want their buildings certified so that
>we can take our leaks without incident, because they won't
>want to be sued by our families...

Nope...not good enough. I'll take care of the planning for my own families future thank you -- it won't help me that they get to sue cause I'll be dead and that I can do without.

>Besides, buildings fall anyway, whether or not public
>inspectors have been bribed. Government is not a guarantee;
>in fact, some could cite ample examples that it is the worst of
>all possible choices when other alternatives are available.

I do not disagree and that is why I stated in my earlier posts that the system we now use is not perfect. I just believe strongly that it is better than the one you propose.

Best wishes.

JB
 
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