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Most Dangerous? American Black's or Iraqis
- Thread starter Pa(b)st Prime
- Start date
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:
FYI: The homicide rate of American whites is lower than the murder rate in the U.K. This myth of America suffering murders because of lax gun laws is rubbish. It's demographics. Using your logic-why doesn't gun happy Switzerland have a high murder rate? Or Canada?
American blacks are no worse than those in London and certainly a cut above those found in Port-au-Prince, Rio and Johannesburg.
Good reading:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/poen/2002/00000023/00000006/00373264
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_2_sndgs01.html
If American whites commit less murders, and American blacks are no worse than those in London, which portion of American society is committing the extra murders resulting in the USA having four times the per capita murder rate of the UK? The NYC murder rate is about 3 times that of London, despite similar size and similar ethnic composition, for example. The murder rate in Washington D.C. is 25 times that of London. So I don't buy your argument that the UK and US populations are comparable in respect to violent crime - whether white or black.
As for guns, it's a complex issue, and guns (and especially gun laws) by themselves clearly don't cause crime (they may actually reduce it via deterrence, if gun ownership and training is very widespread amongst the population). But I think it's indisputable that an armed criminal is going to be more dangerous and cause more fatalities, on average, than an unarmed criminal.
Regarding the comparison with Canada and Switzerland - firstly, Canada has a significantly higher murder and violent crime rate than the UK and Europe. Concealed carry is illegal there, and in Switzerland you can only carry in public with a permit, which is normally only given to security guards, private detectives, and people with a special reason to need to be armed. The general public are *not* permitted to walk around carrying loaded guns for general self-defence, even though almost every household has a rifle at home (for national defence). Secondly, in both those countries there is a much greater proportion of long guns rather than hand guns as in the US. Rifles and shotguns are obviously far less suited to criminal exploits than hand guns, due to ease of detection before the crime is committed.
In any case, this is getting away from the fact relevant to this discussion, which is that the American population has about 4 times the murder rate of Europe. If it is not widespread handgun availability causing it (and I didn't say that was the sole or even main cause, just that it is IMO a factor), then it is cultural and social factors specific to the US. Blacks in the UK murder at a far lower rate than in the US. So it is not racial factors inherent to blacks, but societal factors inherent to the country and area they grew up in and live in. A black person born and living in Washington D.C. is much more likely to kill or be killed than one growing up and living in London, Paris, Zurich, Rome etc.
Quote from Cutten:
If American whites commit less murders, and American blacks are no worse than those in London, which portion of American society is committing the extra murders resulting in the USA having four times the per capita murder rate of the UK? The NYC murder rate is about 3 times that of London, despite similar size and similar ethnic composition, for example. The murder rate in Washington D.C. is 25 times that of London. So I don't buy your argument that the UK and US populations are comparable in respect to violent crime - whether white or black.
As for guns, it's a complex issue, and guns (and especially gun laws) by themselves clearly don't cause crime (they may actually reduce it via deterrence, if gun ownership and training is very widespread amongst the population). But I think it's indisputable that an armed criminal is going to be more dangerous and cause more fatalities, on average, than an unarmed criminal.
Regarding the comparison with Canada and Switzerland - firstly, Canada has a significantly higher murder and violent crime rate than the UK and Europe. Concealed carry is illegal there, and in Switzerland you can only carry in public with a permit, which is normally only given to security guards, private detectives, and people with a special reason to need to be armed. The general public are *not* permitted to walk around carrying loaded guns for general self-defence, even though almost every household has a rifle at home (for national defence). Secondly, in both those countries there is a much greater proportion of long guns rather than hand guns as in the US. Rifles and shotguns are obviously far less suited to criminal exploits than hand guns, due to ease of detection before the crime is committed.
In any case, this is getting away from the fact relevant to this discussion, which is that the American population has about 4 times the murder rate of Europe. If it is not widespread handgun availability causing it (and I didn't say that was the sole or even main cause, just that it is IMO a factor), then it is cultural and social factors specific to the US. Blacks in the UK murder at a far lower rate than in the US. So it is not racial factors inherent to blacks, but societal factors inherent to the country and area they grew up in and live in. A black person born and living in Washington D.C. is much more likely to kill or be killed than one growing up and living in London, Paris, Zurich, Rome etc.
There has been some sociological work done regarding the differences in violence that led to the way the news was presented as a fundamental causal factor. News in the US is 99%horribly negative, never about anything positive, not so in Canada and the UK according to the research... I can't cite anything because it was just something mentioned to me by a college student that was reading sociology archives in his library but I believe it. I feel like shit after an hour of CNN for sure...
Quote from maxpi:
There has been some sociological work done regarding the differences in violence that led to the way the news was presented as a fundamental causal factor. News in the US is 99%horribly negative, never about anything positive, not so in Canada and the UK according to the research... I can't cite anything because it was just something mentioned to me by a college student that was reading sociology archives in his library but I believe it. I feel like shit after an hour of CNN for sure...
Coincidently, I am reading a book to back up your comment.
The unspoken maxim, it if bleeds, it leads. 30 - 40 % of the airtime is devoted to crime stories.
NY Times article 1996 "Crime is down everwhere except on your local nightly news"
Article from the LA Times mentions news coverage of crime went up 336% while the crime rate dropped 13%.
The problem is the fear factor, fear retards progress and investments in cities and preserves destructive sterotypes.
crackers who wk at fnc esp smith, hannity, gibson and orally.
Quote from piezoe:
It seems to me that the only way this unsatisfactory situation can be rectified is for the Black man to come to the realization that it is their culture, not their skin color, that is creating their difficulties.
What about a cultured, educated, law-abiding black person who has worked hard and done ok through their own efforts. Then they apply for a job and find it much harder because of their race; or their partner's parents strongly disapprove because they're black; or they get pulled over by the cops a lot; or they look for accommodation and get turned down time and again - never getting a clear reason but knowing that it is purely because of their skin colour; or getting hassle on public transport etc. How is it the culture of this black person that is creating the difficulties?
Quote from Cutten:
What about a cultured, educated, law-abiding black person who has worked hard and done ok through their own efforts. Then they apply for a job and find it much harder because of their race; or their partner's parents strongly disapprove because they're black; or they get pulled over by the cops a lot; or they look for accommodation and get turned down time and again - never getting a clear reason but knowing that it is purely because of their skin colour; or getting hassle on public transport etc. How is it the culture of this black person that is creating the difficulties?
We all have encounters of the ignorant kind. I suppose the black man can teach whitey one of two lessons, he can rise above the situation, deal with it and move on set a positive example or waste time and energy and sue because his civil rights have been violated.
Personally when I have an ignorant counter, and we all have them, I go somewhere else, ain't worth my time.
Quote from Cutten:
What about a cultured, educated, law-abiding black person who has worked hard and done ok through their own efforts. Then they apply for a job and find it much harder because of their race; or their partner's parents strongly disapprove because they're black; or they get pulled over by the cops a lot; or they look for accommodation and get turned down time and again - never getting a clear reason but knowing that it is purely because of their skin colour; or getting hassle on public transport etc. How is it the culture of this black person that is creating the difficulties?
Isn't that like saying that 99% of lawyers make the rest look bad?
Quote from Cutten:
What about a cultured, educated, law-abiding black person who has worked hard and done ok through their own efforts. Then they apply for a job and find it much harder because of their race; or their partner's parents strongly disapprove because they're black; or they get pulled over by the cops a lot; or they look for accommodation and get turned down time and again - never getting a clear reason but knowing that it is purely because of their skin colour; or getting hassle on public transport etc. How is it the culture of this black person that is creating the difficulties?
Cutten you really need to visit America. Your views are as ancient as Harriet Beecher Stowe or To Kill A Mockingbird. Think Puff Daddy not Sounder.
Even a seemingly prejudiced guy like me-heck I started this thread-wouldn't discriminate based on race. Not liking someone is one thing . Harming or slighting someone because of their genetic profile is immoral. Discussing Black crime/social/economic problems isn't tantamount to cracking the bull whip. The problem with the global African community isn't racism from Whites but racism from Black's. There's something Blacks en masse perceive about themselves-a self inflictedness-that's inhibiting their collective development as equal players. Why can Mexican immigrants-penniless, illiterate in a foreign land-find employment, stay married and commit crime at a far lesser rate? This isn't about wealth, education or any of the other culprits so often cited by those thinking in the box. It's about imagery, cultural values, self-worth.
Quote from Cutten:
The USA, where the majority are whites, has a murder rate per 100,000 of about 6. By contrast, Bermuda is majority black and has a murder rate of 1.5. Of top 10 most murderous countries in the world, only 2 have a mainly black population.
Doesn't this contradict your statement that "Crime follows blacks as surely as night follows day"?
No it doesn't because that study is false . Think of Sudan, Zimbabwe, Rwanda,Nigeria, Chad, Congo , Haiti , Jamaica.
It just depends who does those statistics.