more republican stupidity: women should plan ahead to be raped

Quote from tomdavis:

I used to be strongly pro-choice all through college, and even when I first got married. When my wife became pregnant with our first child there was a potential problem and we went in early for the first sonogram at seven weeks. What I saw changed my perspective entirely. There was a fully-shaped human being, moving around, reacting to my wife's movement, with a heartbeat of 100 beats per minute. When I asked the OB/GYN doc when she thinks life begins, she said there are many scientific theories, but nobody knows for certain. She said, all we can do is take measurements, study the physiology and try and reach a scientific conclusion. She also said that technology is going to make everyone rethink the definition over time.

I'm still pro-choice, simply because if abortion is made illegal, that won't stop it. Women will just have unsafe abortions rather than safe procedures. But the experience certainly changed my mind about unborn babies. It's no accident that the moment a woman finds out that she's pregnant she starts talking about "my baby," not "my fetus."

This is not a religious issue for me. I'm a devout agnostic. But when I hear a respected scientist/doctor say we don't know precisely when life begins, it raises a lot of questions.
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Tom, it's a very complicated issue that could get far less complicated if we took the federal money out of the equation. That would probably be a good starting point. The moral issue will never be resolved.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Vhehn, don't be a dick. States are suppose to do that but you and I both know that the government tramples over the constitution and states rights constantly. I'm speaking about what the states are suppose to do under the law. There are a lot of things states and federal governments do that abuse their power and that is why we have a court system to appeal to. And when those courts fail us the system fails us. But this is why it is absolutely crucial that we elect people at every level of the government, on both the right and left, that respect the law, the constitution and states rights.
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thats bs. every state has a right to be heard by the supreme court if they think their rights are being violated.
the constitution says what the supreme court says it says.
 
Quote from shortie:

i say the more unwanted babies are aborted the better off we are in the long term.
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Sooooo, why weren't YOU aborted I wonder?
 
Quote from Free Thinker:

i think everyone could agree that after viability there should be no abortion. this could have been law years ago if it were not for religious people sticking their nose in other peoples business.
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1. You just conceded the that there should be no abortions after about the 22nd week.

2. By your implicit logic society should not have murder laws and theft laws.
 
Quote from shortie:

it's funny how the same people who complain that the big government interferes with their freedoms (i think they mean high taxes) don't give a rat's ass about the freedom of a woman to choose whether to have or not to have a child.

if a woman does not want the baby, she does not want that baby - very simple. who is supposed to take care of it after birth? if she does not want it then it will end up in some orphanage only most likely to become a criminal - who needs that? not me!

CA is about to release 50K criminals - probably many came from orphanages. how much money and lives would have been saved had those been aborted?

i say the more unwanted babies are aborted the better off we are in the long term.
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the social contract is that people give the govt power to protect them from others who would infringe on their freedoms.

abortion is so contentious because it pits the idea that the women should be free to kill something in her own body against the mandate govt has to protect -- either- human life for its own citizens.

noting this issue you can see why many on the pro life side to concede that when the moms life is in jeopardy you should save the moms life.
 
Quote from jem:

1. You just conceded the that there should be no abortions after about the 22nd week.

2. By your implicit logic society should not have murder laws and theft laws.
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1. i think that would be a common sense compromise.

2.first class strawman argument that makes no sense.
 
Quote from Free Thinker:

thats bs. every state has a right to be heard by the supreme court if they think their rights are being violated.
the constitution says what the supreme court says it says.
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wrong... that is not true...

the supreme court in Marbury vs. Madison said they have the right to review laws of congress.

it is arguable the Supreme Court has no right to infringe on matters which are are within the states own jurisdiction. And you can see that the U.S. supreme court does not take up certain cases because of that respect for states rights.
 
the way i see it: if the state is so desperate to save an unwanted baby, it should take care of the child after birth and guarantee his/her quality of life to be similar to a baby raised in a family.
 
Quote from jem:

wrong... that is not true...

the supreme court in Marbury vs. Madison said they have the right to review laws of congress.

it is arguable the Supreme Court has no right to infringe on matters which are are within the states own jurisdiction. And you can see that the U.S. supreme court does not take up certain cases because of that respect for states rights.
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nonsense. and you call yourself a lawyer? can a state pass an unconstitutional law and have the supreme court defer to states rights when it is challenged?
 
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