Modern Monetary Theory - How the US Government really pays for things

[Misthos]

Quote from Martinghoul:

Erm, you ever heard of chartalism, Misthos?

Yes, but to be honest, only recently have I read up on Chartalism through my research on MMT. But I have been aware of MMT for over a year now.

I will admit it was difficult to understand, not because it is a complicated theory - but because we have all been "programmed" to think otherwise.

Which begs the question: Why?

Why don't politicians, the media, and economists speak plainly about how the US Government actually works? Why does the US have one fiat system, yet others like the EU have another? Why has the public debate been allowed to progress with erroneous assumptions?

To me, it's like the emergence of Darwin's theory of evolution. Some people didn't want it to be universally known. I don't mean to start a debate on evolution - what I am saying is that there are real repercussions if the general public understood this theory.

The political and economic debate would be turned upside down, and there would be a lot of pissed off people. The elites use this ignorance to tell the masses "we can't afford this." Yet the elites control the printing presses.

Is it no wonder that 2 years after the meltdown, the top 1% is as rich, if not richer than before the crisis hit? Yet the little people are told that they are spoiled and need to be more responsible?

 

[Martinghoul]

Well, I, for one, personally don't see any conspiracies here. People, en masse, believe what we want to believe and, most often, not because someone(s) is concealing the truth from us, but rather because we are inherently lazy, not very bright and suffer from all sorts of biases. But we have known that for a while (remember "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short"?). Moreover, force-feeding people some Grand Truth that you and you alone have seen isn't the answer, 'cause it's arbitrary, arrogant and ultimately evil. So there you have it, Misthos, my fatalistic view of the world.

 

[goodgoing]

Quote from Martinghoul:

Well, I, for one, personally don't see any conspiracies here. People, en masse, believe what we want to believe and, most often, not because someone(s) is concealing the truth from us, but rather because we are inherently lazy, not very bright and suffer from all sorts of biases. But we have known that for a while (remember "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short"?). Moreover, force-feeding people some Grand Truth that you and you alone have seen isn't the answer, 'cause it's arbitrary, arrogant and ultimately evil. So there you have it, Misthos, my fatalistic view of the world.

As much as I hate it I have to agree with this.

 

[goodgoing]

Quote from Misthos:

Yes, but to be honest, only recently have I read up on Chartalism through my research on MMT. But I have been aware of MMT for over a year now.

Chartalism is covert communism. It leads to a totally corrupted system where only those with connection to government officials can obtain financing. This is exactly how the USSR system worked.

Quote from Misthos:

I will admit it was difficult to understand, not because it is a complicated theory - but because we have all been "programmed" to think otherwise

There is nothing into it. They want to abolsih an independent central bank and give the money printing power to corrupted politicians.

Quote from Misthos:

Why don't politicians, the media, and economists speak plainly about how the US Government actually works? Why does the US have one fiat system, yet others like the EU have another? Why has the public debate been allowed to progress with erroneous assumptions?

Because financial systems are too complicated to explain and if you are interested in that you should enroll in a college of your choise and take same economics classes about this subject at the graduate level of course.

Why don't physicists come out and explain General Relativity to the public? Why do the bastards avoid that? Hmm... there may be some conspiracy there. They don't want us to know maybe.

Get serious people. These subjects are very complex and it takes many years of hard work to compehend them. The task of politicians should be to legislate so that the economy operates in efficient ways. Not to be your college professor.

Quote from Misthos:

To me, it's like the emergence of Darwin's theory of evolution. Some people didn't want it to be universally known. I don't mean to start a debate on evolution - what I am saying is that there are real repercussions if the general public understood this theory.

I think you like conspiracy theories. All the information on the monetary system of US and EU is publicaly available. It is just hard to understand it if you have no experience with money market operations.

Quote from Misthos:

The political and economic debate would be turned upside down, and there would be a lot of pissed off people. The elites use this ignorance to tell the masses "we can't afford this." Yet the elites control the printing presses.

You sound like a Bolshevik

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolshevik

The elite, the elite, the elite....Nobody is stopping you from becoming part of the elite but your own lazyness, lack of education and unwillingness to work hard. Come up with a product people need at the price they are willing to pay for it and you just joined the elite.

Quote from Misthos:

Is it no wonder that 2 years after the meltdown, the top 1% is as rich, if not richer than before the crisis hit? Yet the little people are told that they are spoiled and need to be more responsible?

That is correct. What do you wish? Do you wish the few that produce real wealth to lose it in favor of those who tax it to survive?

Oh man, get serious, you sound like a Bolshevik...Do you want fair income redistribution? Do you? Just make something that the rich want and they will pay you to get it. Like a fancy car, a nice jet plane, expensive watches and clothes. Don't sit around and bitch and moan like an old lady who cannot get laid.

 

[nooby_mcnoob]

Quote from goodgoing:

Chartalism is covert communism. It leads to a totally corrupted system where only those with connection to government officials can obtain financing. This is exactly how the USSR system worked.

This is exactly how the stimulus package worked. I don't see what your argument is.

 

[goodgoing]

Quote from nooby_mcnoob:

This is exactly how the stimulus package worked. I don't see what your argument is.

That is what you think. Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, this is extraordinary measure and not the fundamental operational mode of the system.

 

[Misthos]

goodgoing:

The collectivist is you, not me. True capitalism is not what we have today. When money printing is done by the few to support the few, than you have a command economy.

The socialism that exists is for the few, not the many that you despise. True capitalism, with the darwinistic qualities that I support, would rarely allow to exist a handful of elites that produce nothing but by the power of a keystroke own everything.

I am not the collectivist - you are. You support a plutocracy that gains its advantage with socialist policies that support the few at the cost of the many.

I know many small businessmen that have suffered, while the gamblers on Wall Street prosper more and more, despite nearly crashing their own industry and the world economy. This is the system you support, and then trash the masses and true capitalists that have skin in the game.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

martinghoul:

Looks like I hit a nerve. When Ben Bernanke, President Obama, Geithner, and others explain to the American people how the monetary system really works - then we don't have a conspiracy.

The ignorance that exists is not necessarily from laziness - it is manufactured from above.

 

[Misthos]

Quote from goodgoing:

That is what you think. Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, this is extraordinary measure and not the fundamental operational mode of the system.

extraordinary measure? who the hell are you kidding?

Call it what it is - a bailout of the elites that you worship, and a detriment to the true capitalist system you secretly despise.

 

[goodgoing]

Quote from Misthos:

You should be ashamed of yourself.

said the old lady who couldn't get the young boy to sleep with her.

I see from your blog that you live in a country that is known to be very corrupt and in the verge of bankrupty.

That explains your frustration Misthos. Underdeveloped countries is where communism finds ground along with conspiracy theories.

You should be sorry of yourself.

 

[Misthos]

Quote from goodgoing:

said the old lady who couldn't get the young boy to sleep with her.

I see from your blog that you live in a country that is known to be very corrupt and in the verge of bankrupty.

That explains your frustration Misthos. Underdeveloped countries is where communism finds ground along with conspiracy theories.

You should be sorry of yourself.

I'm a US Citizen - born and raised in the US.

And I have my fair share of criticisms of Greece.

Stick to the argument, if you can. You Wall Street bootlicker.