mlm guru doug Allen thread closed. Why?

[cabletrader]

Quote from Doug Allen:

Are you kidding me??? It's a bit of a cop out to say somebody is responsible for his or her own actions???

Of all the ridiculous things posted here, this statement might be the MOST ridiculous. Of course everybody is responsible for his or her own actions. Do you honestly believe otherwise???

This guy traded his account for 3 years before blowing it up. He took a small account from something like $150k to almost a million, then spent about $500k on stupid stuff to make himself feel like a bigshot, and then margined his account to the max before blowing up. I think he was trading around $500k, then margined it to $1 million, then took something like a $400k loss in about a week. His equity dropped back down to about $100k, at which point he took all the money out, bought a house, and paid off his car.

Somehow I'm missing the part about why I would be responsible for any of these actions???

Doug

"I trained a good friend and gave him the biggest edge I could give somebody....", and "The training I gave him wasn't enough for him not to choke up when real money was on the line". Your words, not mine. Quite evidently that edge was worse than worthless without teaching him how to hang on to the gains he might potentially make by using that edge. Is it his fault you forgot to teach him the essentials before turning him loose with his money? It's like giving someone a loaded gun and not telling them which is the dangerous end!

Careful Doug, your halo is beginning to slip.....

 

[Sushi]

yes I attended firewalk and another Robbins seminar. He is a great motivational guy who is fun to watch. He actsually has good points for living. However as a money manager coach he leavfs lots to be desired. Plus he stole his metarial from bandler. If you want real nlp read bandler. Robbins is just a motivational marketing guy. This doesn't change the fact that I think the headgefund manager story is total bs or at the veryleast exagerated about Robbins real role

 

[MAESTRO]

Quote from fearless9:

doug,

You approached ET because you want something.
This how you are perceived and I imagine that this perception will remain until either you fade away or uncharacteristically lay your cards on the table.

Somebody has skillfully taught you to counter differing points of view with overly emotional responses.(mostly unsubstantiated and positive by nature)
This is not a characteristic of a seasoned Trader.

What your Teacher failed to tell you and what you have failed to absorb is that overly emotional responses are the hall mark of people who are endeavouring to deflect a conversation from it's true intent.

If you feel that this is unjust criticism then you have unwittingly fallen into your own trap.
Again this is not a characteristic of a seasoned Trader.

The sad thing is that in the reality you are who you introduce yourself to be, then you are further behind the eight ball than when you started.

In your opening post, you had one chance to set a scene that would draw your audience towards you, enabling you to follow through.

Instead you have blown off a good opportunity.

Why not try to remember, perception is everything.
All it needs is the backup of solid facts and you have a winner on your hands.

regards
f9

Spot on!

If Doug is a "teacher/mentor" he should have presented us the records and testimonials from the people who had indeed improved their trading performance following his advise. On another hand, if he is a fund manager then he should have presented to us his registration, his past performance results and lots more of other documentation that constitutes an official fund. If he is looking to create other type of business then he should have presented to us his business plan and honest projections. Being a fund manager myself I could not imagine "no responsibilities" for losses produced by hired traders. Unless, of course, the traders trade his own money which does not appear to be the case. But if there are investors involved then the full disclosure of the "trading strategy" to them is required. I could go on and on, but as I said earlier, I do not want us to continue this discussion and give Doug more and more chances to suck more people in. My very strong opinion as a professional in this business that his posts broke many norms in the fund management business making him a target for potential legal actions. In the times like today any activity that might appear as not very "clean" will immediately attract the attention of appropriate authorities. Of course, there are might be documents that prospective traders will be forced to sign that address all of these concerns and the whole operation could be legally thought through, but the point I am making here is that there was no evidence of such documentation being presented. And believe me, there is no official structure today in the hedge fund business that would allow somebody to "finance" trading accounts using the investor's money unless those investors are fully aware of the use of their money. That is the document I would like to see.

 

[cabletrader]

Quote from MAESTRO:



If Doug is a "teacher/mentor" he should have presented us the records and testimonials from the people who had indeed improved their trading performance following his advise.

Oh I think we've already got one....

In Doug's own words one of his students "margined his account to the max before blowing up. I think he was trading around $500k, then margined it to $1 million, then took something like a $400k loss in about a week"

Excellent! What a testimonial! Bravo!

 

[marketsurfer]

what are you talking about maestro?

Traders are NEVER responsible financially for their losses when trading for a fund.

The risk manager generally oversees the trading to make sure things dont get out of control in a discretionary trader based fund.

 

[MAESTRO]

Quote from marketsurfer:

what are you talking about maestro?

Traders are NEVER responsible financially for their losses when trading for a fund.

The risk manager generally oversees the trading to make sure things dont get out of control in a discretionary trader based fund.

I was not talking about traders. There is always a person who caries responsibilities. I just wanted to know who it is in Doug's case

 

[trendo]

Quote from cabletrader:

"I trained a good friend and gave him the biggest edge I could give somebody....", and "The training I gave him wasn't enough for him not to choke up when real money was on the line". Your words, not mine. Quite evidently that edge was worse than worthless without teaching him how to hang on to the gains he might potentially make by using that edge. Is it his fault you forgot to teach him the essentials before turning him loose with his money? It's like giving someone a loaded gun and not telling them which is the dangerous end!

Careful Doug, your halo is beginning to slip.....

Trying my best to give old Doug a fair hearing, so let me play devil's advocate for the moment. What if he claimed 100% success with his training? Would you believe that?

 

[fearless9]

Quote from Sushi:

yes I attended firewalk and another Robbins seminar. He is a great motivational guy who is fun to watch. He actsually has good points for living. However as a money manager coach he leavfs lots to be desired. Plus he stole his metarial from bandler. If you want real nlp read bandler. Robbins is just a motivational marketing guy. This doesn't change the fact that I think the headgefund manager story is total bs or at the veryleast exagerated about Robbins real role

Call me an old fashioned sentimental fool but as much as I can, and without conscientiously trying, I endeavour for a neutral bias.
I neither want a positive attitude and heaven help a negative one.
I just want to read price and place and pull stops accordingly.

TR might help marketeers, but I cannot imagine how he would dovetail into trading.
But then I have never followed TR so I am in no position to comment.

regards
f9

 

[propslave]

What I can't understand is why some of you put so much effort into discrediting this guy? So you can pat yourself on the back for discrediting a fraud? Who cares...

I filled out the form and yes, it's possible I wasted my time. However, the reward far outweighs the risk. If he is legit and I have the opportunity to make more money than I currently am, why not? I know I have a legitimate edge in the market and if I have to start out by trading 1 contract on a 10k account for someone else so I can build their trust, I will, so long as there is opportunity to manage a larger account down the road.

So my time may have been wasted... yours definitely is.

 

[cabletrader]

Quote from trendo:

Trying my best to give old Doug a fair hearing, so let me play devil's advocate for the moment. What if he claimed 100% success with his training? Would you believe that?

Without anything tangible to support that claim, no I wouldn't for obvious reasons. Was Doug showing his honesty with those revelations about one of his students or were they made unintentionally? I don't know, let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

I've tried to remain unbiased in all this but seeing as his pitch is in some way connected to training, his recent statements aren't exactly confidence inspiring for any potential punter!

I'm still at a loss as to what exactly it is he's trying to accomplish here, it seems he's putting an awful lot of effort into it whatever it is!