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Minimum Wage ... Unbelivable?
- Thread starter empee
- Start date
Let me jump in here. I have said this before and I will say it again. The issue here is not inflation. The issue is raising the minimum wage prices out the lowest skilled workers among us. The higher wages go, the more competitive their jobs become. Unemployment among the least skilled will skyrocket.
Now here's the rub. In Europe, and yes Bit, even the UK, their systems have a large social safety net so that when the lower skilled workers can't find jobs, they become children of the state. We have no such system set up here. We would literally have to completely change our government. In the UK and France and Germany, you can actually live very well on welfare, this is not true here in the US.
Also, in the US, we have a huge surplus of mexican labor that is willing to work for almost nothing. If Europe had Mexicans taking all their low skilled jobs that would mean more and more of the low skilled workers in Europe would live off of the state. This would put an huge burden on the state. BTW, this is starting to happen now with the influx of cheap arab labor coming into France and Germany. I have a lot of family in Europe and they say the job market is atrocious. The reason for this is because of all the immigrants from both eastern Europe and the Arabs coming in. Germany and France are not able to support that many people on welfare and their countries are going broke and they are cutting back social services and even talking about raising the retirement age for seniors.
The bottom line is comparing the US to Europe is very tricky because of the immigration issue. But like many of the posters mentioned here previously, we have a huge underground labor market here. The higher minimum wage becomes, the larger the underground labor becomes. We simply cannot raise minimum wage without increasing our capacity to finance a larger more encompassing welfare system. It simply is not possible.
What we should be doing in this country is instead of raising minimum wage is closing off our borders to keep our jobs here for Americans. And improve our educational system so we produce an educated workforce. I agree with some here that say we should possibly lower minimum wage as a deterrent to kill the black underground labor market and keep the Mexicans out and help the workers who have no job skills. Wages really should be set by the marketplace, not the government.
Now here's the rub. In Europe, and yes Bit, even the UK, their systems have a large social safety net so that when the lower skilled workers can't find jobs, they become children of the state. We have no such system set up here. We would literally have to completely change our government. In the UK and France and Germany, you can actually live very well on welfare, this is not true here in the US.
Also, in the US, we have a huge surplus of mexican labor that is willing to work for almost nothing. If Europe had Mexicans taking all their low skilled jobs that would mean more and more of the low skilled workers in Europe would live off of the state. This would put an huge burden on the state. BTW, this is starting to happen now with the influx of cheap arab labor coming into France and Germany. I have a lot of family in Europe and they say the job market is atrocious. The reason for this is because of all the immigrants from both eastern Europe and the Arabs coming in. Germany and France are not able to support that many people on welfare and their countries are going broke and they are cutting back social services and even talking about raising the retirement age for seniors.
The bottom line is comparing the US to Europe is very tricky because of the immigration issue. But like many of the posters mentioned here previously, we have a huge underground labor market here. The higher minimum wage becomes, the larger the underground labor becomes. We simply cannot raise minimum wage without increasing our capacity to finance a larger more encompassing welfare system. It simply is not possible.
What we should be doing in this country is instead of raising minimum wage is closing off our borders to keep our jobs here for Americans. And improve our educational system so we produce an educated workforce. I agree with some here that say we should possibly lower minimum wage as a deterrent to kill the black underground labor market and keep the Mexicans out and help the workers who have no job skills. Wages really should be set by the marketplace, not the government.
Quote from Maverick74:
Let me jump in here. I have said this before and I will say it again. The issue here is not inflation. The issue is raising the minimum wage prices out the lowest skilled workers among us. The higher wages go, the more competitive their jobs become. Unemployment among the least skilled will skyrocket.
Now here's the rub. In Europe, and yes Bit, even the UK, their systems have a large social safety net so that when the lower skilled workers can't find jobs, they become children of the state. We have no such system set up here. We would literally have to completely change our government. In the UK and France and Germany, you can actually live very well on welfare, this is not true here in the US.
unemployment here is at more or less constant 5% and for those claimin' jobseeker allowance the payslip is just miserable. not everybody also qualifies to get benefit as default if unemployed..u gotta be livin' here for ages, have worked for ages and bein' fired from your job. the welfare system caters well for those incapacitated or disabled and is most recognized for that. for people survivin' on income support life is terrible harsh: cost of life here is more than double than over there in the us...look at goods, transports, etc.
Also, in the US, we have a huge surplus of mexican labor that is willing to work for almost nothing. If Europe had Mexicans taking all their low skilled jobs that would mean more and more of the low skilled workers in Europe would live off of the state. This would put an huge burden on the state. BTW, this is starting to happen now with the influx of cheap arab labor coming into France and Germany. I have a lot of family in Europe and they say the job market is atrocious. The reason for this is because of all the immigrants from both eastern Europe and the Arabs coming in. Germany and France are not able to support that many people on welfare and their countries are going broke and they are cutting back social services and even talking about raising the retirement age for seniors.
it is freakin' true the situation, especially here is extremely tough...we aint no better off than u for what concerns immigration and illegal workers. that doesnt justify payin' a meger 1quid a hour innit.
The bottom line is comparing the US to Europe is very tricky because of the immigration issue. But like many of the posters mentioned here previously, we have a huge underground labor market here. The higher minimum wage becomes, the larger the underground labor becomes. We simply cannot raise minimum wage without increasing our capacity to finance a larger more encompassing welfare system. It simply is not possible.
the same is here...every freakin' foreign biz wether a restaurant or a mini cab service hires people that either havent got a work permit or force those who have it to avoid fillin' their p45...and has been like that since well before labor introduced the first raise in min wage. these problems are not correlated with the min wage never been and never will.
What we should be doing in this country is instead of raising minimum wage is closing off our borders to keep our jobs here for Americans. And improve our educational system so we produce an educated workforce. I agree with some here that say we should possibly lower minimum wage as a deterrent to kill the black underground labor market and keep the Mexicans out and help the workers who have no job skills. Wages really should be set by the marketplace, not the government.
this is madness; look i tell ya, sooner or later they gonna raise it, theres no 2 ways about it and u'll see that all your fears were completely unfounded, trust me.
Quote from BrandNewTrader:
There's flaw in your logic. wage law is a national law and will be implemented nationwide. We already have jobs leaving the country - this may have an increasing effect on job flight, but the offsetting benefit is that the working poor will better be able to afford a lifestyle that is closer to or peaking above the poverty line. Do you undertstand that? People who work and work and find themselves living in poverty?
SNICKER; All you will be doing is moving that poverty line hurdle higher.
The only way to increase the quality of life is to increase their productive output.
Quote from hans37:
SNICKER; All you will be doing is moving that poverty line hurdle higher.
The only way to increase the quality of life is to increase their productive output.
and how the hell do u do that...u think the garabage man can handle to work night shifts at your local mc donald as well?
Quote from Bitstream:
and how the hell do u do that...u think the garabage man can handle to work night shifts at your local mc donald as well?
hmm you seem to have a problem with the assertion that increasing worker output is the only realistic way of raising the standard of living.
Is that true?
or are you just WHINING THAT IT CANNOT BE DONE?
Quote from hans37:
hmm you seem to have a problem with the assertion that increasing worker output is the only realistic way of raising the standard of living.
Is that true?
or are you just WHINING THAT IT CANNOT BE DONE?
no, it seems that is what u were implyin'... explain me how your garbage man can raise productivity instead than postin' another senseless question as answer to my question.
Quote from djinney:
All prices and wages go up in fashion. You have just changed the reference point.
Remember, it is the MINIMUM wage that you are talking about... by definition, all the rest goes up too sir.
absolutely not true. because the minimum wage goes up does not mean that other wages go up in lockstep. furthermore if wages are artificially pushed up or benefits mandated by law, less people. will be hired
Quote from hans37:
hmm you seem to have a problem with the assertion that increasing worker output is the only realistic way of raising the standard of living.
Is that true?
or are you just WHINING THAT IT CANNOT BE DONE?
not exactly. a maid in the US or UK is not more productive than a maid in Sri Lanka. the reason a maid gets paid more in the US is that the person who bids for the maid's service is more productive than the person who is hiring in the third world and will bid up the
wages for maids.