Minimum Wage ... Unbelivable?

[jamis359]

Quote from Maverick74:

The issue is raising the minimum wage prices out the lowest skilled workers among us. The higher wages go, the more competitive their jobs become. Unemployment among the least skilled will skyrocket.

Sounds good in theory but in the real world the facts do not bear this out. There is actually very little correlation between high or low minimum wages and unemployment. Many states have high minimum wages and low unemployment. For example,

USA Min wage=$5.15 Unemp=4.6%

Vermont Min wage=$7.40 Unemp=3.0%
Florida Min wage=$6.40 Unemp=3.2%
New York Min wage=$6.75 Unemp=4.6%

... and then there's Mississippi, with no state min. wage and at the low federal rate of $5.15, their unemployment is a whopping 7.2%. Under the conservative supply-sider's arguments Mississippi should be booming with job creation due to the low wages, while Vermont should be suffering with high unemployment. As the numbers show, the supply-siders are wrong.

In reality, a modest increase in the federal minimum wage to $7 or $8/hr level would not hurt employment and the net effect would probably be beneficial because it would stimulate consumer demand by giving low wage earners some discretionary income. I think the opposition to minimum wage increases by Republican congresspeople has more to do with pleasing corporate campaign donors than it does with economics.

 

[hans37]

Quote from Bitstream:

no, it seems that is what u were implyin'... explain me how your garbage man can raise productivity instead than postin' another senseless question as answer to my question.

Good LORD man do you need for me to help you blow your nose or tie your shoes too?

I don't want to make it too complicated for you but There are literally millions of ways for a low wage worker to increae their output or their economic value.
If you are obssessed with trash collection Isuggest contacting waste mgmt or BFI, for how they increase worker output.

btw : don't forget developing new skills is quite effective also

 

[zdreg]

bitstream - think what task you thought you couldn't never afford to hire someone to do and just hire hans who seems to be a master of all trades.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from jamis359:

Sounds good in theory but in the real world the facts do not bear this out. There is actually very little correlation between high or low minimum wages and unemployment. Many states have high minimum wages and low unemployment. For example,

USA Min wage=$5.15 Unemp=4.6%

Vermont Min wage=$7.40 Unemp=3.0%
Florida Min wage=$6.40 Unemp=3.2%
New York Min wage=$6.75 Unemp=4.6%

... and then there's Mississippi, with no state min. wage and at the low federal rate of $5.15, their unemployment is a whopping 7.2%. Under the conservative supply-sider's arguments Mississippi should be booming with job creation due to the low wages, while Vermont should be suffering with high unemployment. As the numbers show, the supply-siders are wrong.

In reality, a modest increase in the federal minimum wage to $7 or $8/hr level would not hurt employment and the net effect would probably be beneficial because it would stimulate consumer demand by giving low wage earners some discretionary income. I think the opposition to minimum wage increases by Republican congresspeople has more to do with pleasing corporate campaign donors than it does with economics.

These numbers are all BS as are the government figures on employment. The poorest of the poor among us never show up on unemployment by the very definition we give unemployment!!!!!!

According to our government, someone is only legally counted as unemployed if they are actively seeking employment! Most poor low skilled workers do not fall into this bracket. Your numbers are meaningless.

Furthermore, the states you listed have huge social programs that help support the poor and give them even more reasons not to seek employment and therefore not even be counted as technically unemployed.

Our government is not interested in tracking those that are out of work, but rather those that really want work and can't get it. There is a huge distinction between the two.

BTW, I live in Chicago which also has a state mandated higher then national average minimum wage. Care to guess how many hispanics live here? LOL. That's right capadre, underground labor market. Very good. As you were.

 

[Bitstream]

Quote from hans37:

Good LORD man do you need for me to help you blow your nose or tie your shoes too?

I don't want to make it too complicated for you but There are literally millions of ways for a low wage worker to increae their output or their economic value.
If you are obssessed with trash collection Isuggest contacting waste mgmt or BFI, for how they increase worker output.

btw : don't forget developing new skills is quite effective also

yeah just what i guessed, u have zero clue, just postin' sentence after sentence that makes no sense. new skills, what are u injectin' on your groin? wheter u work 8hour shift and are packin' ready to eat meals or sewin' blue jeans all day long that's your freakin' job and is stays that way. if u wish to develop new skills u ought to leave your current job, or work double shifts, there's just no 2ways about it. new skills have got nothin' to do with low paid jobs..those are here to stay and some1 has to do 'em.

 

[zdreg]

Quote from jamis359:

Sounds good in theory but in the real world the facts do not bear this out. There is actually very little correlation between high or low minimum wages and unemployment. Many states have high minimum wages and low unemployment. For example,

USA Min wage=$5.15 Unemp=4.6%

Vermont Min wage=$7.40 Unemp=3.0%
Florida Min wage=$6.40 Unemp=3.2%
New York Min wage=$6.75 Unemp=4.6%

... and then there's Mississippi, with no state min. wage and at the low federal rate of $5.15, their unemployment is a whopping 7.2%. Under the conservative supply-sider's arguments Mississippi should be booming with job creation due to the low wages, while Vermont should be suffering with high unemployment. As the numbers show, the supply-siders are wrong.

the number don't prove anything because supply sider's never said there there would be booming job creation because of low wages. there is a long list of factors that determine job creation.
only one of the factors is the level of wages

 

[kiwi_trader]

Lies, damned lies and prejudices. You can't get past them because the conditioned poster either doesn't know they have them or because they are defending their perceived status quo and are in denial.

Archie Bunker lives in ET's chitchat (&) economics threads. It was a great show; not nearly as funny here.


__________________
The things people believe in are usually just what they instinctively feel is right; the justifications and arguments are the least important part of the belief.
That's why you can win the argument, prove them wrong, and still they believe what they did in the first place. You've attacked the wrong thing.
So what do you do? Agree to disagree. Or fight. - C. Zakalwe.

 

[Bitstream]

Quote from zdreg:

bitstream - think what task you thought you couldn't never afford to hire someone to do and just hire hans who seems to be a master of all trades.

u right, the geezer seems to be a multi-task multi solution kinda guy.. am sure he could be able to handle the work of my gardners, accountants and maids workin' just part-time and for half the min wage also!

 

[Burtakus]

Can a person live on $5.15/hr?
Not a chance in hell, especially in a city.

Is there a reson a person is only being paid $5.15 and hour?
Of course, we as a society say that they value of your labor is only $5.15/hr. Perhaps it is less but the government says that regardless of what society values a person labor, you must be paid $5.15/hr.

Is a person entitled to a wage higher than what society determines it to be?

This is the question that should be asked.

Personally I think the answer is no. A person should be paid as much as they can get. How much that is determined by how society values a person labor. If you are not making enough then the onus is on you as an individual to find a way to increase the value of your labor to society.

Those who propose a minimum wage feel that a person is entitled to a certain wage/standard of living just because they hold a job, regardless of the value that society places on that job.

 

[jamis359]

Quote from zdreg:

the number don't prove anything because supply sider's never said there there would be booming job creation because of low wages. there is a long list of factors that determine job creation.
only one of the factors is the level of wages

Supply-siders argue this all the time: if you lower the tax rates and you lower the burden on business, employment will go up.

The only thing the supply-siders have accomplished in the last 6 years has been high corporate profits at the expense of huge federal deficits, a wealth transfer from future taxpayers to Exxon and Microsoft. Wages have stagnated -- corporations, by and large, are not sharing the earnings with their employees. This is very shortsighted -- if you shrink the middle class too much, no one will be able to afford to buy the goods and services the corporations produce! Surplus production and lack of demand, hmm, sounds like a recipe for economic depression to me.

What the low unemployment numbers in high minimum wage states prove is this: the nation can afford to raise the minimum wage from $5.15/hr to $8/hr. The illegal alien argument is just silly. McDonalds, Walgreen and Target don't hire illegals.