Minimum Wage ... Unbelivable?

[CasperCRF]

Quote from bsmeter:

I always wondered who the 29% were

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1853/29bm9.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>


It looks like you're one of them!!. ROTFLMAO!




"It's appalling -- it's really astounding," said Michael Gorman, president of the American Library Association and a librarian at California State University at Fresno. "Only 31 percent of college graduates can read a complex book and extrapolate from it. That's not saying much for the remainder."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/24/AR2005122400701.html


"53 percent of all college students take remedial courses because they did not gain the skills they should have gained in secondary school"

http://www.all4ed.org/publications/ReadingNext/Introduction.html

"About 30 percent of the nation's public school students fail to graduate on time, according to an analysis by the research center of Editorial Projects in Education, which publishes Education Week newspaper."

http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=121039

No where in any of those quotes does it say 50% of graduating seniors can't read.

"Literacy:
Definition Field Listing
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 99%
male: 99%
female: 99% (2003 est.)"

From the CIA fact book for the USA.

 

[hans37]

Quote from themarket:

Good day people!

Weighing back in here.

In response to the above, a "true capitalist structure" does not, has not and will never exist in the world. There will always be some form of gov't intervention to do whatever it is that they do to try to fix whatever it is they deem needs fixing. So much for "true capitalism".

Next...the point isn't whether or not a minimum wage is good or bad or capitalism or socialism or whatever "ism" is making the rounds that day. That debate is over. Has been for quite a while. Minimum wage exists...it is here...end of story...too late to do anything about it. The only thing a rational person can do is live with it. Making upward adjustments every once in awhile is now just a fact of life. Would we be better off without it? Maybe...maybe not. We'll never know.

hmmm I vote we lower the mininmum wage to allow greater participation amongst the low and no skill job seeker.

 

[hans37]

Quote from BrandNewTrader:

hans, i clearly stated that it's the gov's duty to care for society, not you. You even quoted it. Stop writing just b/c you disagree and address the points. talking but not saying sht...

OMG, PUHLEEZE forgive me.
I did not know in the looney toon world you live in that governments did not derive their power through responsibilities and compulsions (taxes) placed upon the citizenry!

May I suggest you apply for a refund from Wharton.

Like I said if you want to , knock yourself out in your philanthropy .Just don't assume you have the right to make the same decision for me through the threat of govt force.

 

[hans37]

Quote from Bitstream:

mschey, dont u think there'll always be the need for low quality jobs u and i wouldnt do even if forced to...dont we need some1 cleanin' public toilets and sweepin' the roads? u are makin' an argument for the poor to move up the ladder but if they do so whos left to take up their jobs...based on your arguments there would be nobody left to do the most disgustin' chores...why on earth have they got to be paid famen wages and not even have the luxury of eatin' red meat once a month...fuck it man it aint fair; i dont like to see children becomin' fatter and fatter cuz they cant afford decent food and the most basic education that theach 'em divorin' big macs 5days a week is gonna kill u. sheesh...man a raise in the min wage aint gonna make a dent in your income and neither on that of the superich, while the benefits for poor family are more than obvious...why be so egotisitcal?

What the hell are you blathering on about?

Let's say we increase the min wage to $100,000 /year.
What will the effects of that be?

1)aEverybody currently making less than that amount in productive output would lose their job. hint: business has to make a profit otherwise everybody including the shareholders and bondholders lose.
1b) illegal employment skyrockets ,


2) Everbody keeps thier job but even the lowest paid workers automatically get bumped up to the 28% income tax bracket.
As a matter of fact only the highest earners will not be bumped up into a new tax bracket.
3months later inflation is out of control perpetuating the problem.

BTW : the bottom of the barrel worker is STILL at the BOTTOM.
6 months later we devalue the currency to curb inflation violoa we are back at square one with "the bottom of the barrel worker is STILL, at the BOTTOM"


what have you solved?

btw raising the min wage will make illegal alien labor MORE valuable.

 

[themarket]

Quote from hans37:

OMG, PUHLEEZE forgive me.
I did not know in the looney toon world you live in that governments did not derive their power through responsibilities and compulsions (taxes) placed upon the citizenry!

May I suggest you apply for a refund from Wharton.

Like I said if you want to , knock yourself out in your philanthropy .Just don't assume you have the right to make the same decision for me through the threat of govt force.

You ARE kidding right? Where did you study Civics? He absolutely has the EXACT right to make you do just that. Its called a democratically elected gov't. That's why we have elections. Different ideas and philosophies compete for legitimacy. The winner gets to impose its ideals on the rest of us...like it or not.

 

[hans37]

Quote from themarket:

You ARE kidding right? Where did you study Civics? He absolutely has the EXACT right to make you do just that. Its called a democratically elected gov't. That's why we have elections. Different ideas and philosophies compete for legitimacy. The winner gets to impose its ideals on the rest of us...like it or not.

hans37

GEEZ you are pathetic!! Take up your objection with the loser who made the assertion!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from BrandNewTrader:

hans, i clearly stated that it's the gov's duty to care for society, not you. You even quoted it. Stop writing just b/c you disagree and address the points. talking but not saying sht...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[The Kin2]

The minimum wage should be tied to inflation.

And the basket of goods should be the things people living on the minimum wage use the most... such as food and energy...

 

[BrandNewTrader]

Quote from hans37:

OMG, PUHLEEZE forgive me.
I did not know in the looney toon world you live in that governments did not derive their power through responsibilities and compulsions (taxes) placed upon the citizenry!

May I suggest you apply for a refund from Wharton.

Like I said if you want to , knock yourself out in your philanthropy .Just don't assume you have the right to make the same decision for me through the threat of govt force.

Why is your perspective so juvenile? It's not about me making a decision for you or you being forced to comply with government policies that you may not necessarily agree with. It's about the nature of the relationship between a government (any govt, not just the US) and its citizens, especially those who are less able to provide for themselves due to low income or poverty. You know, like social and public goods, morals and ethics as applied to government policies.

And how did I say that governments don't derive their power through taxation and subjugation? That's the whole F'ing point! They DO!

We shouldn't talk about this anymore. I think the crux of your argument is emotional and based on narrow-minded thinking and a limited and classist perspective. You haven't offered any rationale for your arguments, you simply repeat that you shouldn't be forced to do something for people you don't think need help. Ok. WHY shouldn't the government help them in the face of economic forces moving against them (rising costs outpacing real wage growth)? Lawmakers have given themselves pay raises at every opportunity, citing "rising cost of living" as the main factor. The minimum wage hasnt been increased in 10 years (35G's in salary increases for lawmakers during same period). The message couldn't be more overt. Wht's the justification for this? There isn't any!

Please answer that question and stop all this foolish nonsense about being forced to pay more taxes by the govt.

 

[BrandNewTrader]

Quote from hans37:

What the hell are you blathering on about?

Let's say we increase the min wage to $100,000 /year.
What will the effects of that be?

1)aEverybody currently making less than that amount in productive output would lose their job. hint: business has to make a profit otherwise everybody including the shareholders and bondholders lose.
1b) illegal employment skyrockets ,


2) Everbody keeps thier job but even the lowest paid workers automatically get bumped up to the 28% income tax bracket.
As a matter of fact only the highest earners will not be bumped up into a new tax bracket.
3months later inflation is out of control perpetuating the problem.

BTW : the bottom of the barrel worker is STILL at the BOTTOM.
6 months later we devalue the currency to curb inflation violoa we are back at square one with "the bottom of the barrel worker is STILL, at the BOTTOM"


what have you solved?

btw raising the min wage will make illegal alien labor MORE valuable.

I'm no economic guru, but something tells me your brief example has alot of things wrong with it.

For one, you're using and extreme example (MW @ $100k) that fails to illustrate the effects of a slight increase or decrease. If you look at the other extreme, no MW and complete free markets, you have a system that can't exist given it's theoretical and impossible to implement (except in Somalia?) in a REAL SOCIETY.

There will always be workers at the bottom, that should go without saying. But should these people be left to fall further behind the rest of the country? Or should they be afforded basic opportunities to live comfortably in the society in which they WORK and PAY TAXES. That's the fundamental question here. I don't think you understand it and its offshoot class and ethical issues very well.

in addition, you said the huge increase in wages would lead to inflation. I don't think that's a certainty. In fact, I'm pretty sure that economists have been putting together research for both sides of this argument (wage vs price inflation - which is the precursor) and there's no eas answer. Funny how you were able to figure out what global economists have failed to agree upon.

And that's just to start. Your previous posts have revealed a flawed logic that actually takes away credibility from your more technical arguments. Sensibility seems to be lacking here...

I said stick to trading, not economics.

 

[Bitstream]

Quote from hans37:

What the hell are you blathering on about?

Let's say we increase the min wage to $100,000 /year.
What will the effects of that be?

1)aEverybody currently making less than that amount in productive output would lose their job. hint: business has to make a profit otherwise everybody including the shareholders and bondholders lose.
1b) illegal employment skyrockets ,


2) Everbody keeps thier job but even the lowest paid workers automatically get bumped up to the 28% income tax bracket.
As a matter of fact only the highest earners will not be bumped up into a new tax bracket.
3months later inflation is out of control perpetuating the problem.

BTW : the bottom of the barrel worker is STILL at the BOTTOM.
6 months later we devalue the currency to curb inflation violoa we are back at square one with "the bottom of the barrel worker is STILL, at the BOTTOM"


what have you solved?

btw raising the min wage will make illegal alien labor MORE valuable.

this is all in your head, never happened anythin' even close to this in any of the countries were it was implemented...doesnt necessarly mean that there would be no problems in the us [although very likely there'd be none] but your arguments are just based on fear and biased perception...empirical evidence has also shown the contrary to all the nonsense u wrote above.