Minimum Wage ... Unbelivable?
- Thread starter empee
- Start date
I read an article a little while back that claimed that the best performing stock markets in the world over the last 100 years were
1. Sweeden.
2. Australia.
Australia currently runs a budget surplus.
Australia has traditionally had a strong trade union movement, substantially better working conditions than the US, minimum wage, universal healthcare and so on. Seems like those horrible 'socialists' aren't wrecking havoc after all.
Nuff said.
Yeah, and until recently just about every Kiwi and Aussie took a "walk about" due to the unsatisfactory economic environments and lack of well paid jobs in their home countries. Fact is that Australia and N.Z. are huge benefactors (as are most countries right now) of the global growth story in China and S.E. Asia. I can't even begin to tell you how many Australian and N.Z. ex-pats I know where I live (U.S.). They mostly all came in the early '80's and 90's and have stayed to make their livings and return home once they retire. Ireland had much the same story until recent years. There's a reason why there aren't too many Irish priests anymore. If you want the state to provide a "living" I would recommend you move to the Nordic countries where you are well provided for and the workers are more than sufficiently taxed to provide those standards.
As far as the minimum wage, I can't believe a bunch of "Elite Traders" are advocating it being raised. I can believe that many semi-socialist participants to this forum are advocating this, but not American traders. As far as I know, nobody guarantees me a living wage in what I have chosen to do. Why must I provide it to others in what they choose to do.
Fact is most people after they've been here for a while will notice that many if not most immigrants make it here in the States. It's not how much you make, but what you choose to do with what you make. I have worked for minimum wage (when it was 3.25/hr) as a matter of fact, and nothing concentrates the mind more on bettering your skills and education than working for such low wages. I have also worked for just about the minimum wage with a college education as well. One of my first jobs out of college was the graveyard shift at the local liquor distributor packing trucks for delivery (paid a whole 6.50/hr). It was a temporary gig so I could just get some cash flow for paying my education off. You see, a homie like me doesn't qualify for educational grants and my parent weren't wealthy enough to pay for college. Gee, guess I just had to do it the old fashioned way, earn it. I have also seen educational grant recipients in college skip buying books for classes and purchase liquor, clothes and firearms instead. Glad I could help provide for the future of America.
Poor, destitute immigrants quickly learn or die trying to get to the land that REWARDS hard work and SELF-DEVELOPMENT. Nobody guarantees anyone anything and there's a difference between EQUAL OPPORTUNITY and EQUAL PAY. There is no reason a business should be REQUIRED to provide anything other than what it can afford to pay its workers and still be able to provide a safe place to work and stay profitable. PERIOD. Mandatory health care and pensions are called benefits for a reason. BTW, the markets are very efficient in this manner, rarely are you going to be extended a job that doesn't at some point offer health insurance or retirement benefits. What many fail to realize is that many jobs are simply stepping stones and aren't meant to be long term. The problem is that people don't want to invest in themselves to better their position due to the fact they want expensive clothes, cars and toys. America has some of the richest poor people I have ever seen. I live in the south, a geographical area known for its poverty, and I can't begin to tell you how many people here receive public assistance such as health care and food stamps that own multiple cars, cell phones and satellite television.
If you work hard, invest in your future you will do more than fine. Question is just how many want to do these things as opposed to having them provided to them from a "welfare state". If anything, expand education benefits and get a solid trade school system started in the U.S. rather than higher wages for menial labor.
Just my .02
P.S. Before anyone starts to flame, yes I have been to Western (old) Europe, Eastern Europe, Great Britain, Canada, Mexico etc.....
As far as the minimum wage, I can't believe a bunch of "Elite Traders" are advocating it being raised. I can believe that many semi-socialist participants to this forum are advocating this, but not American traders. As far as I know, nobody guarantees me a living wage in what I have chosen to do. Why must I provide it to others in what they choose to do.
Fact is most people after they've been here for a while will notice that many if not most immigrants make it here in the States. It's not how much you make, but what you choose to do with what you make. I have worked for minimum wage (when it was 3.25/hr) as a matter of fact, and nothing concentrates the mind more on bettering your skills and education than working for such low wages. I have also worked for just about the minimum wage with a college education as well. One of my first jobs out of college was the graveyard shift at the local liquor distributor packing trucks for delivery (paid a whole 6.50/hr). It was a temporary gig so I could just get some cash flow for paying my education off. You see, a homie like me doesn't qualify for educational grants and my parent weren't wealthy enough to pay for college. Gee, guess I just had to do it the old fashioned way, earn it. I have also seen educational grant recipients in college skip buying books for classes and purchase liquor, clothes and firearms instead. Glad I could help provide for the future of America.
Poor, destitute immigrants quickly learn or die trying to get to the land that REWARDS hard work and SELF-DEVELOPMENT. Nobody guarantees anyone anything and there's a difference between EQUAL OPPORTUNITY and EQUAL PAY. There is no reason a business should be REQUIRED to provide anything other than what it can afford to pay its workers and still be able to provide a safe place to work and stay profitable. PERIOD. Mandatory health care and pensions are called benefits for a reason. BTW, the markets are very efficient in this manner, rarely are you going to be extended a job that doesn't at some point offer health insurance or retirement benefits. What many fail to realize is that many jobs are simply stepping stones and aren't meant to be long term. The problem is that people don't want to invest in themselves to better their position due to the fact they want expensive clothes, cars and toys. America has some of the richest poor people I have ever seen. I live in the south, a geographical area known for its poverty, and I can't begin to tell you how many people here receive public assistance such as health care and food stamps that own multiple cars, cell phones and satellite television.
If you work hard, invest in your future you will do more than fine. Question is just how many want to do these things as opposed to having them provided to them from a "welfare state". If anything, expand education benefits and get a solid trade school system started in the U.S. rather than higher wages for menial labor.
Just my .02
P.S. Before anyone starts to flame, yes I have been to Western (old) Europe, Eastern Europe, Great Britain, Canada, Mexico etc.....
Comrades, it is our Christian duty to reward the rich at the expense of the poor. We need more tax cuts for the rich in addtion to the recent firing of IRS lawyers in charge of auditing the wealthiest Americans who commit tax fraud, hell we ought to fire all the lawyers in charge of auditing the wealthiest americans if we want to keep economic growth going. Generalissimo Bush's economic vision will no doubt catapult the US on the Gini Index unpwards toward the great societies of Mexico and Brazil. Yes comrades, it is a great time to be an American.
Thats just plain stupid mrssavant
This thread is stupid...get a clue. (Funny this stupid scenario will come to pass that I mentioned above).
Come back to this thread in the future and read my post, if you do not believe me.
I support less government control, as the motivations behind their "so-called" good for America are short sighted and many times selfish.
Democracy needs to reward infrastructure with efficiency. There needs to be a proper motivation, encouraging efficiency. Give recognition when and where due for the right reasons.
Stop lieing to yourself and to America. Governments should operate like profit making companies do for their stockholders, this is no longer the age that our founding fathers were in when they made the base of our infrastructure.
An entire country of many people could survive on our waste alone and egalitarianism is not the answer.
Come back to this thread in the future and read my post, if you do not believe me.
I support less government control, as the motivations behind their "so-called" good for America are short sighted and many times selfish.
Democracy needs to reward infrastructure with efficiency. There needs to be a proper motivation, encouraging efficiency. Give recognition when and where due for the right reasons.
Stop lieing to yourself and to America. Governments should operate like profit making companies do for their stockholders, this is no longer the age that our founding fathers were in when they made the base of our infrastructure.
An entire country of many people could survive on our waste alone and egalitarianism is not the answer.
Excellent post.
I did some business one time with a Vietnamese immigrant who at the time had 3 jobs, all at or near minimum wage. I was selling him a property I owned. He had managed to save up $10K to put down out of these 3 jobs.
Never saw a prouder guy when he closed on buying his first house. I didn't hear a single whine about the "low wages" he was being paid. All I saw was a lot of pride in the fact that he was moving up in society, owning his first home.
Contrast this with some of his American born bretheren. What a shame indeed. If there is a fault here, it is the idea that in America we evidently can't educate people to understand why they need to strive for themselves, better themselves, take advantage of the opportunity that they are surrounded with. People are dying to get into this country, to work at wages LESS than minimum wage. HELLO????? Does that register with any of you bleeding heart statists?
You guys that think that the folks on minimum wage need a "helping hand", feel free to help them. No one is stopping you. Dig down deep into your pocket and hand them some money. Why do find it necessary to force the owners of capital and property to carry out YOUR social wishes????
And for the guy who told me about the stock markets of Australia and Sweden? Again, I ask you....give me the business and economic achievements of these countries. Let's not hear about the social programs...lets hear about what exactly is being accomplished in these countries. Or maybe we should wonder WHY folks are struggling to get into the US, rather than Australia?
OldTrader
I've spent many hours reading fine material on ET. Unfortunately, none of it has been posted by you. No offense but your body of work suggests a younger, bitter person of limited intelligence but possibly well educated. Clearly you've under achieved. You're attitude is holding you back! As soon as you realize your problems are caused by internal forces rather than "they", the rich or the Christian Right, you'll improve your lot in life.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1127800&highlight=contract#post1127800
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1144873&highlight=live#post1144873
And BTW: the rich pay nearly all the taxes in the United States. I believe over a third of U.S. workers pay no taxes at all.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1127800&highlight=contract#post1127800
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1144873&highlight=live#post1144873
And BTW: the rich pay nearly all the taxes in the United States. I believe over a third of U.S. workers pay no taxes at all.