I always wondered why you turned professional instead of stayed retail.For a quite a variety of reasons, actually, but I guess they mostly boil down to the main two mentioned, just above.
(Mine - in case you were thinking of asking - was that I was able to earn considerably more that way, by trading in far bigger size, while doing almost exactly the same things, and losing almost none of the benefits of self-employment. Others I know in similar positions have other, only slightly different reasons.)
Indeed ... and actually one with which many employed traders disagree.
(But in the context of this thread, it's all kind of academic: many prop-shops are very scammy outfits, and they're the only ones who are going to look at someone in his 4th year and not profitable as a trader. No disparagement intended, but it is what it is.)
Mentorship (4th year still not profitable)
- Thread starter iamnewuser911
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I kinda doubt that OP would be able to get a prop futures trading gig - they don't mentor anymore. But they are always looking for programmers so that is why I suggested in a previous post that he consider learning the skills they were posting for (Python, MatLab, whatever) and maybe try to get his or her foot in the door that way. Just a thought. If he or she has a knack for strategy then I'm sure one of the groups or individuals at the firm would consider taking him on at some point down the road.
Another point - joining an exchange registered futures prop firm is not a sentence of servitude. Careers are fluid. Hardly anyone stays at the same employer for long periods of time these days. Plenty of former prop traders, including myself, go on to trade their own accounts. And when I wanted to trade exchange-cleared swaps and needed access to serious margin and a firm approved by LCH and Clearport to trade those swaps I transitioned back into that world.
Again, it's a transition, it's a means to an end. If it's not a beneficial situation then by all means leave. But if you're really good, chances are they are going to offer you something really choice in order to entice you to stay - a partnership, a bigger profit sharing split, stuff like that. Or a headhunter from a HF will try like hell to poach you. Happens all the time. You have options. Slavery was outlawed about 154 years ago or so.
I worked for over a decade in prop firms, I never once saw it as working for someone else, if anything I saw it as them working for me. If they didn't give me top notch service I threatened to leave and they tried to keep me. I demanded good IT support, low commissions, investment into infrastructure. I could work when I want or how I wanted, no dress code. It was a partnership. If I lost money I would have been asked to leave. But when making money it was their job to support me. They brought their capital and infrastructure and relationships to the table, I brought my market edges, experiences and research abilities. It was never a boss/employee relationship... unless I had a particularly bad day!
I went "full time" back in 2010, never worked for anyone when trading, and always traded my own funds so I am ignorant.
How are profits and losses shared, just curious?
Regards,
It all depends how much money you have on account with them. If a trainee they will back you (well used to) for 50/50 split. But when I was doing it for every 10k in your account you get an extra 10% in your split. The highest is about 90%.
Probably the average Trader was on about 70% split. The biggest thing ppl here haven’t discussed is if I am trading my own account and a flash crash puts me 500k in the hole despite only having 50k the lawyers are coming after me for my assets. At a prop firm the firm takes the hit. So you pay your split for lots of things. Also nearly every edge I have found came from working with other traders. Hardly found anything reading off forums or books. So it was either 20-30% of my profits to the prop firm or no profits.
For an exchange registered futures prop firm, the answer is usually yes as far as my own personal knowledge. I have known some prop traders (big earners) who traded remotely - but they earned that right. You have to keep in mind that all the the risk is borne by the firm and risk controls are important.
Thank you. I probably should look into this a few years back but trading my own money forced me to "grow up" fast.
Regards,
What is funny about this is that every time I read a book or try to use an author's idea I start to lose more than I am used to lose in futures day-trading. That makes me thing that trading is a strange activity where less you study, a better professional you are.
That also makes me think that you would do better if you give me half of the money you intend to give to a mentor, cause in both ways you keep not being profitable, but giving me half of the money you will at least keep the other half.
That also makes me think that you would do better if you give me half of the money you intend to give to a mentor, cause in both ways you keep not being profitable, but giving me half of the money you will at least keep the other half.