Mav's Combine Proposition

[futuman]

Quote from Maverick74:

Then how do you explain the 24 live traders they have now? Look, I stand by my statement. The refund is not hard, going live is very challenging and I agree, no more then 3% to 5% will ever go live. Of course you can say that about futures trading in general. I highly doubt more then 3% to 5% are even profitable.

I'm curious, what do you think is so hard about the refund? Can you be more specific instead of saying it's so hard. Having more up days then down days? Having a winning % of more then 45%? Care to spill the beans?

Sorry Mav, but I think Vol is 100% right. If you take 0 risk you get 0 profit. If you have a sky high profit target you HAVE to take big risk.
Do you think people take the combine just to get a new combine. Makes no sense does it? So, if you think 3% take it to go live, how on earth do you think 50% will have their account positive at the end of the combine? You must be dreaming. I think probability for that is zero. Possibly 5-15% get a refund.

 

[zdreg]

Quote from Maverick74:

But your numbers are lying. You, like the others, are not accounting for the refunds. And I have no idea where you are getting 5400 from. A majority of those 500 are rollovers and you can't count them twice as most of them who roll are probably rolling for free.

And your 27 number? That's how many guys that are live NOW. How many live total in 2 years? How many blew out? I'm guessing they have taken a decent amount in losses.

Here is the final proof. And this goes for all the critics. If this model is really as lucrative as you think, then why are YOU not starting your own? Come on and don't tell you don't want to. There is not a single person on this website, myself and Don Bright included that would turn down 750k a year with minimal to zero risk. That's the very definition of asymmetric bet. No one here is making more then that. You are not doing it for the same reason that no one else in the industry is doing other then the newcomer Index Elite. Wow, a model so lucrative, so profitable, so risk free, and yet no one wants to replicate it? That's BS and you know it.

When these prop firms started with their education model for 10k and getting a free account, firms started duplicating that right and left. The whole industry moved to the education model. Why? Because it was proven and it worked. So where is all the competition? Didn't think this through did you?

assuming that there is a minimal risk,it still takes a level of expertise to replicate which most ET members do not have.

 

[marketsurfer]

Come on, Mav. What's the delay? We can't wait to invest! Youneed to overnight the papers ASAP!

Surf

 

[artfartdart]

how would the sim be set up? crossing the bid/ask only to get filled? if so, I'd wager that 98% of people don't make it. in fact, i'd also wager that most will have finally pnl of around (-1) * num_contracts_traded * $12.5

 

[artfartdart]

i didn't understand why people were getting upset with the patak deal. what someone (maybe mav?) wrote was spot on: if you don't like the deal, fund your own account with $10k and off to the races ya go. if i had never traded before, spending the $350 or whatever to test my mettle out in a structured environment as opposed to dropping $10k in my spare bedroom to find out the hard way is pretty cheap.

 

[JuniorCTA]

Quote from artfartdart:

i didn't understand why people were getting upset with the patak deal. what someone (maybe mav?) wrote was spot on: if you don't like the deal, fund your own account with $10k and off to the races ya go. if i had never traded before, spending the $350 or whatever to test my mettle out in a structured environment as opposed to dropping $10k in my spare bedroom to find out the hard way is pretty cheap.

because the people complaining are the greatest traders ever, who make thousands of dollars a day, but can't afford $350


Oh, they also have MBAs and BS's from top universities in accounting but don't know how to do shit

 

[tango29]

Quote from artfartdart:

i didn't understand why people were getting upset with the patak deal. what someone (maybe mav?) wrote was spot on: if you don't like the deal, fund your own account with $10k and off to the races ya go. if i had never traded before, spending the $350 or whatever to test my mettle out in a structured environment as opposed to dropping $10k in my spare bedroom to find out the hard way is pretty cheap.

Yep! Or get a job at a firm and spend years trying to work your way up. Or spend $50,000 + getting a masters or phd and be one of the top students in your class and then maybe get a job with a firm.
If you don't treat it like gambling, but rather a job and learning experience you might get away with paying for a couple combines and finding a strategy, or realizing that it isn't a game and you need to find a different job. If I was starting over I'd be happy to have someone work with me and then split profits with them for a period of time. At some point I would have gone on my own with a strategy, plan and some cash in my pocket. This instead of all the money is pissed away on shames and scams before I dug my head out of my ass and realized I needed to learn the business, and treat it as a job.

 

[Datradr]

RE: dont do it if dont like it---


so true...there are so many people on this site who just like to bash people and companies no matter what...

thats not to say there arent companies that do questionable things and maybe should be called out if something illegal is going on...

but if you dont like a deal ---thats ok ---move on and find something you do like---screaming scam doesnt make your case.

Is Patak a great deal? depends on your point of view and position in life i guess. I dont know too much about them except what has been posted and it sounds like they are taking big risks with little return...but as long as they as its legit then who cares.

they are plenty of companies for different types of traders...find one that suits you (whoever is complaining so much) LOL

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from artfartdart:

how would the sim be set up? crossing the bid/ask only to get filled? if so, I'd wager that 98% of people don't make it. in fact, i'd also wager that most will have finally pnl of around (-1) * num_contracts_traded * $12.5

No, you can get filled on the bid and offer. They have an algo that tries to place your order in the que based on time. I've stated on this thread before and I'll say it again, most guys don't make money trading. That has nothing to do with Patak. Most guys can't make money in their mom's basement nor can they make money at most prop firms. That is just a fact.

The only question I have and anyone should have is, is TST transparent and are they honoring their agreement. I've stated before that if I found out that they are not honoring their deals, that is a completely different story. Their website cannot be any more transparent. Hell I talk to guys at prop firms who can't even tell me how their bonuses are calculated. How's that for transparency.

The fact that trading is hard is completely irrelevant to this conversation. The fact that the rules are hard is also irrelevant because you know the rules before you play. I think TST is a godsend for most of ET because they will find out very fast that most of them have no business being nearing a trading DOM with anyone's capital much less their own. The sooner they figure that out, the sooner they can move on with their life.

 

[tango29]

Quote from Maverick74:

The fact that trading is hard is completely irrelevant to this conversation. The fact that the rules are hard is also irrelevant because you know the rules before you play. I think TST is a godsend for most of ET because they will find out very fast that most of them have no business being nearing a trading DOM with anyone's capital much less their own. The sooner they figure that out, the sooner they can move on with their life.

Mav, the funny part, to me anyway, is that most professional jobs require a time and education commitment. I am the first to admit I got hooked on how easy it was when tech was booming, and you bought and sold 5 minutes later with a stupid profit. Later I took a bath in poop, like most who had no idea what they were doing.
I am no genius, but I did figure out that this was a business like any other, and to learn it and make even a basic living required work. My kids ask me what I do and I tell them my job sucks. It actually is what I want to do, but it requires a mental skill level that some have from day one, and others like me have to learn. The lessons are painful, as it is my money and not "the companies" money. If my kids demonstrate an annoying commitment, I will sit with them and work through it, but I by no means will encourage them to pursue this field.