Mav's Combine Proposition

Mav,

I think the numbers are way off. I know your NFL combine analogy was not meant to be taken even close to literally but the defensive backs showing up there are probably running the 40 in 4.6 or less. Their bedrock skills and years of grinding up from high school etc.make them so close to a professional level it's scary. In baseball the average AAA player is two whiskers behind a lower level guy in the show.

The distance you'll have to bring these guys is big ... very big. Maybe one in ten make it and, unless it is designed to wash them out prior to you risking a dime, nothing computes.
 
Quote from Lucias:

Mav,
How can you be sure the SMB model is successful?

SMB got a lot of attention because of a few reasons

1. They were featured on wall street warrior
2. Dr. Steenbarger went and helped them for free and mention them in his book.
3. Bella published a book.

I already asked SMB for capital. Bella made a post about how he'd fund traders that were serious/etc. you just had to ask.. he made a blog post about this some time back. I showed Bella that I had 2 top ranked futures systems at C2 and Bella replied with a rather formal/dry reply... didn't seem least bit interested. I believe they partner with T3 now too.

My feeling is that SMB is struggling.. why else get into options

Anyway, I really try to like the patak model but just too many things off putting about it.. I will write Michael in another thread with my suggestions.

Also you act like all prop firms make you pay deposit or they aren't succesful. This simply isn't true. I had at least 2 prop firms that would fund me.. no outlay but it wasn't tenable for me because I'd need about 1 year of living expenses saved up. And they wouldn't let me trade without relocating/no remote/no way to ramp up gradually. I did an analysis of my situation and figured that my best interest was to protect my capital. That's rule #1. Keep my trading capital and not put myself in jeopardy to work for someone else.

I know of several props that don't require capital outlay. They let you trade own edges too. The definition of a real prop is just that.. you don't put any up money and they fund you.

FNY said in an interview with the owners: they look for traders to bring in own edges.. own creativity. But there are others too..

My perspective if.. Michael says he's looking for best futures traders, I told him I'm one of the very best. Why does he expect me to pay if he wants me to work for him? And frankly objectives are too high....
More...

Lucias, by successful I mean that SMB is not letting their traders bankrupt their company. And I think they are making enough out of the fees to justify the effort. I doubt any of their traders are very profitable if at all.

As far as prop firms in Chicago, Lucias, we have been over this 100 times. Almost all the prop firms in Chicago back their traders. This is because all these firms have edges in which they pay their traders to execute. This is very different from what you are proposing. TST is using a very different model. They are letting guys like you trade anything you want, anyway you want to trade it. That is very rare. Most of these firms own you and tell you exactly what you can and can't do. TST is not like those other firms.

Lucias, spending $200 on a combine that you can get re-funded is not the same as risk capital. If you have so little confidence in yourself to spend $200, then you are not ready yet. Michael even mentioned allowing one person from ET to trade for free. I actually wanted that cool trader dude to do it. The reason being I think you will blame TST if you fail. And what's the point in that if you will not take ownership of your actions. Just my opinion.
 
Quote from Swan Noir:

Mav,

I think the numbers are way off. I know your NFL combine analogy was not meant to be taken even close to literally but the defensive backs showing up there are probably running the 40 in 4.6 or less. Their bedrock skills and years of grinding up from high school etc.make them so close to a professional level it's scary. In baseball the average AAA player is two whiskers behind a lower level guy in the show.

The distance you'll have to bring these guys is big ... very big. Maybe one in ten make it and, unless it is designed to wash them out prior to you risking a dime, nothing computes.
More...

It wasn't mean to be an analogy. It's simply a term to describe a process.
 
Fair enough but the term combine as used in sports describes a process that takes in extraordinary talent ... guys that have dominated many of the fields they played on. And very few of them step up that last step.

You will, my guess is, not be able to back any significant number of traders. You need a whole lot of washout to absorb the losses they will inflict on your capital.

Quote from Maverick74:

It wasn't mean to be an analogy. It's simply a term to describe a process.
More...
 
Quote from Swan Noir:

Fair enough but the term combine as used in sports describes a process that takes in extraordinary talent ... guys that have dominated many of the fields they played on. And very few of them step up that last step.

You will, my guess is, not be able to back any significant number of traders. You need a whole lot of washout to absorb the losses they will inflict on your capital.
More...

I have stated at least a dozen times on this thread that I have ZERO intention of backing any traders. This thread was an exercise. Nothing more. I accept that fact you probably have read little of this thread or the other two threads detailing TST so I'll leave it at that. I backed traders in the past and will never do it again. I stated on this thread I would rather run an airline.
 
Even in a theoretical exposition of a topic you try to make it within a solar systems distance from reality. The only way this gets into this galaxy in terms of a business proposition is if you wash out 90% of those that start the process and everyone should be aware of that lest someone ever take this nonsense seriously.

And I know you know that. As I once heard a friend of mine tell a guy "the only difference between you and I is I jack off at home". Are you kidding me with this thread!!

Quote from Maverick74:

I have stated at least a dozen times on this thread that I have ZERO intention of backing any traders. This thread was an exercise. Nothing more. I accept that fact you probably have read little of this thread or the other two threads detailing TST so I'll leave it at that. I backed traders in the past and will never do it again. I stated on this thread I would rather run an airline.
More...
 
Quote from Swan Noir:

Even in a theoretical exposition of a topic you try to make it within a solar systems distance from reality. The only way this gets into this galaxy in terms of a business proposition is if you wash out 90% of those that start the process and everyone should be aware of that lest someone ever take this nonsense seriously.

And I know you know that. As I once heard a friend of mine tell a guy "the only difference between you and I is I jack off at home". Are you kidding me with this thread!!
More...

Swan, you obviously have read zero of the other two threads. This thread is in response to 10 posters who ASKED me to post this thread. I gave them my word that I would and I did. Do you understand. I'm trying to be civil with you. Lucias and GMST both asked me to write up an alternative to the TST model. I told them I would. I did. And I stated I would never attempt to execute this model as it's suicide for anyone that tries it. I demonstrated that on this very thread. What exactly do you want me to do? It's a fucking message board for Christ sake.

And furthermore, if you actually did bother to read the other threads, you would have read my explanation for why I even got involved in this TST discussion. It was because one of the traders in this thread, Lucias, sent me 150 e-mails asking me to back him. I told him I had no interest in backing him. This was some time ago. I then found this company TST which I told him to look into. I read over the site forwards and backwards and thought it was a good fit. He has since found 500 reasons not to risk $200 to give it a shot and would rather trade his own underfunded futures account while STLL sending me e-mails to back him. Honestly, dude, I just tried to help another trader out. Lay off the 3rd degree.
 
OK

Quote from Maverick74:

Swan, you obviously have read zero of the other two threads. This thread is in response to 10 posters who ASKED me to post this thread. I gave them my word that I would and I did. Do you understand. I'm trying to be civil with you. Lucias and GMST both asked me to write up an alternative to the TST model. I told them I would. I did. And I stated I would never attempt to execute this model as it's suicide for anyone that tries it. I demonstrated that on this very thread. What exactly do you want me to do? It's a fucking message board for Christ sake.

And furthermore, if you actually did bother to read the other threads, you would have read my explanation for why I even got involved in this TST discussion. It was because one of the traders in this thread, Lucias, sent me 150 e-mails asking me to back him. I told him I had no interest in backing him. This was some time ago. I then found this company TST which I told him to look into. I read over the site forwards and backwards and thought it was a good fit. He has since found 500 reasons not to risk $200 to give it a shot and would rather trade his own underfunded futures account while STLL sending me e-mails to back him. Honestly, dude, I just tried to help another trader out. Lay off the 3rd degree.
More...
 
Quote from Maverick74:

But your numbers are lying. You, like the others, are not accounting for the refunds. And I have no idea where you are getting 5400 from. A majority of those 500 are rollovers and you can't count them twice as most of them who roll are probably rolling for free.

And your 27 number? That's how many guys that are live NOW. How many live total in 2 years? How many blew out? I'm guessing they have taken a decent amount in losses.

Here is the final proof. And this goes for all the critics. If this model is really as lucrative as you think, then why are YOU not starting your own? Come on and don't tell you don't want to. There is not a single person on this website, myself and Don Bright included that would turn down 750k a year with minimal to zero risk. That's the very definition of asymmetric bet. No one here is making more then that. You are not doing it for the same reason that no one else in the industry is doing other then the newcomer Index Elite. Wow, a model so lucrative, so profitable, so risk free, and yet no one wants to replicate it? That's BS and you know it.

When these prop firms started with their education model for 10k and getting a free account, firms started duplicating that right and left. The whole industry moved to the education model. Why? Because it was proven and it worked. So where is all the competition? Didn't think this through did you?
More...






refunds ?



What % of the 180 min new combines sold do you think get refunds every month ?


Have you exactly read all of the requirements for it ?



There is a reason the owner won't tell you what the numbers are



I can tell you right now that even though I have successfully traded futures since 2005 with real money, I don't think I could meet the combine requirement to pass with all of the conditionals they have.



I never said it was making 750k


I believe this grosses a min of 336k per year.


Throw in 240k annual in over head which I think is on the high side and the net is still a min 6 figure net.



The fact remains the owner is not doing this for charity and considering the performance of the 27 live traders the revenue has to be coming from something or do seriously think he is just throwing money away on something unprofitable ?
 
Quote from traderchi128:

Schwartz:

"I was broke in the 1970s, and I never wanted to be broke again. My philosophy was that if you make money every month, nothing bad is going to happen to you. So, you won’t be the richest person. You’ll never be the richest person anyway. What difference does it make? I’m proud of my futures trading, because I took $40,000 and ran it up to about $20 million with never more than a 3 percent drawdown."


Unlike your boy VN who had to have a garage sale and sell a bunch of his personal
stuff to cover his losses after blowing out.
More...




No money from the horses ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top