Materialists
- Thread starter ShoeshineBoy
- Start date
Two questions:
Do you believe Judaism supports mass murder too?
What is the broader point of your disagreement? i.e. do you believe that Christianity is intrinsically evil / bad, or more evil / bad than atheism? And if so, how do you define evil / bad? Where do you draw your moral standards from?
I'm just joking dorkhorse, and you started the immature coffe topic. Do you always forget your actions? And you continually refer to me as an atheist after I've informed you that I'm agnostic. And you continue to refer to nihilism as if you've no idea what either POMO or what agnosticism
is.
Shall I continue to inform you of your stupidity? Maybe you and your stupidity shoud sit down in a coffee shop. You drink coffe whilst your stupidity wears a turtleneck.
is.
Shall I continue to inform you of your stupidity? Maybe you and your stupidity shoud sit down in a coffee shop. You drink coffe whilst your stupidity wears a turtleneck.
No, if you asked me whether you could torture me I would say no, because that would not be in my best interests.
Best interests??? You contradict yourself.
How can you have INTERESTS if nothing matters???
The fact that you give a shit proves that things DO matter.
Avoiding pain matters to you, EVEN IF you die later.
Your argument so far has been a non sequitur.
"You see axe, in a world where there is no higher standard, the only final arbiter of authority is force."
By asserting there is no higher standard, you are either asserting
there are NO standards, OR that all standards are perfectly equal.
Either way, that is an assertion you need to back up.
" If you want to torture me, and I don't want you to, then the ultimate result will be settled by force. And if we are both atheists, then there is no right and wrong in the matter, because neither of us has a higher authority to appeal to other than our own actions and desires. "
Complete nonsense. Are you entirely unaware of moral systems
which are NOT based on theism???? Im surprised.
"But this was exactly part of my larger point: if you recognize that your beliefs and your actions are merely a construct to suit your purpose, then why criticize others for having beliefs and actions different than yours?"
Because my beliefs are NOT constructs to suit my purpose.
Another bad premise/assumption on your part.
Easily provable by the fact that I hold beliefs that I really
dont like, but I accept as the harsh reality of things.
"By what method or standard do you choose other than personal fulfillment alone? You may behave in accordance with civilized laws, but only because it is in your personal interest to do so. "
And what is wrong with that??? As a society, we create laws
the way we want them and then we abide by them.
And guess what! It works! Woooow...that was hard huh?
But in general.... this is a philosophical question. You ARE
aware of philosophical systems that argue for these
methods/standards WITHOUT any supernatural theistic base
they pulled out their ass right???
"Yes I agree, it's quite natural to value your own life to an extreme. Indeed, some have valued their own lives to such an extreme that they are perfectly willing to harm or destroy the lives of others for their own personal benefit. And what's stopping them? For the self professed chooser of purpose, there is no right or wrong, only individual choice in regards to what is right or wrong. "
Again.... your ignoring thousands of years of philosophy here
and im not about to teach a course on it.
But as an example.... Why wouldnt an OBJECTIVIST steal
property from another man to enrich his life if he was capable?
Hmmmmmmmmmm?? You see.... man is capable of coming up
with MANY reasons why this is a bad idea. We dont NEED
some supernatural man in the sky to tell us what is right and wrong.
"This question is part of a much broader and deeper conversation. I could answer you but not in a single post, and I assure you my answer would have nothing to do with Pascal's wager. "
Fine.... and I wont be teaching a 6 month philosophy lesson either
on where these standards/methods should come from, without theism involved.
"As for "enjoying life more," belief in God is no detriment to maximizing happiness. I am well content, deeply satisfied, and wake up happy and excited to be alive most every morning. And life just keeps getting better as I go. "
So am I, but im happy that my happiness doesnt stem from
self delusion based on silly books written by unknown, unverified
authors.
Believers of christ seem completely blind to history.
We went over this in detail in another thread, but in conclusion,
the bible is a poorly written book of fiction that is not
documented by ANY contemporary historian.
If you hold beliefs based on biblical teachings, then what
can I say.... you hold some completely unsupported beliefs
based on a mythical figure named Jesus. The evidence for
a historical Jesus is a JOKE, especially considering he is
the son of god. Yet - he is unknown by history. Pretty damn funny.
peace
axeman
Best interests??? You contradict yourself.
How can you have INTERESTS if nothing matters???
The fact that you give a shit proves that things DO matter.
Avoiding pain matters to you, EVEN IF you die later.
Your argument so far has been a non sequitur.
"You see axe, in a world where there is no higher standard, the only final arbiter of authority is force."
By asserting there is no higher standard, you are either asserting
there are NO standards, OR that all standards are perfectly equal.
Either way, that is an assertion you need to back up.
" If you want to torture me, and I don't want you to, then the ultimate result will be settled by force. And if we are both atheists, then there is no right and wrong in the matter, because neither of us has a higher authority to appeal to other than our own actions and desires. "
Complete nonsense. Are you entirely unaware of moral systems
which are NOT based on theism???? Im surprised.
"But this was exactly part of my larger point: if you recognize that your beliefs and your actions are merely a construct to suit your purpose, then why criticize others for having beliefs and actions different than yours?"
Because my beliefs are NOT constructs to suit my purpose.
Another bad premise/assumption on your part.
Easily provable by the fact that I hold beliefs that I really
dont like, but I accept as the harsh reality of things.
"By what method or standard do you choose other than personal fulfillment alone? You may behave in accordance with civilized laws, but only because it is in your personal interest to do so. "
And what is wrong with that??? As a society, we create laws
the way we want them and then we abide by them.
And guess what! It works! Woooow...that was hard huh?
But in general.... this is a philosophical question. You ARE
aware of philosophical systems that argue for these
methods/standards WITHOUT any supernatural theistic base
they pulled out their ass right???
"Yes I agree, it's quite natural to value your own life to an extreme. Indeed, some have valued their own lives to such an extreme that they are perfectly willing to harm or destroy the lives of others for their own personal benefit. And what's stopping them? For the self professed chooser of purpose, there is no right or wrong, only individual choice in regards to what is right or wrong. "
Again.... your ignoring thousands of years of philosophy here
and im not about to teach a course on it.
But as an example.... Why wouldnt an OBJECTIVIST steal
property from another man to enrich his life if he was capable?
Hmmmmmmmmmm?? You see.... man is capable of coming up
with MANY reasons why this is a bad idea. We dont NEED
some supernatural man in the sky to tell us what is right and wrong.
"This question is part of a much broader and deeper conversation. I could answer you but not in a single post, and I assure you my answer would have nothing to do with Pascal's wager. "
Fine.... and I wont be teaching a 6 month philosophy lesson either
on where these standards/methods should come from, without theism involved.
"As for "enjoying life more," belief in God is no detriment to maximizing happiness. I am well content, deeply satisfied, and wake up happy and excited to be alive most every morning. And life just keeps getting better as I go. "
So am I, but im happy that my happiness doesnt stem from
self delusion based on silly books written by unknown, unverified
authors.
Believers of christ seem completely blind to history.
We went over this in detail in another thread, but in conclusion,
the bible is a poorly written book of fiction that is not
documented by ANY contemporary historian.
If you hold beliefs based on biblical teachings, then what
can I say.... you hold some completely unsupported beliefs
based on a mythical figure named Jesus. The evidence for
a historical Jesus is a JOKE, especially considering he is
the son of god. Yet - he is unknown by history. Pretty damn funny.
peace
axeman
The christian bible (the old AND *especially* the new testament) preaches mass brutal murder through word and deed.
Christianity intrinsically preaches brutal mass murder by god and underlings and history is rife with examples of it's followers following.
Turok
__________________________________________________
What is your definition of murder? If it is "the purposeful taking of innocent human life" then you need to demonstrate the innocence of the victims.
Christianity intrinsically preaches brutal mass murder by god and underlings and history is rife with examples of it's followers following.
Turok
__________________________________________________
What is your definition of murder? If it is "the purposeful taking of innocent human life" then you need to demonstrate the innocence of the victims.
