marriage and government

Quote from Cutten:

This argument does not apply to a prostitute who does not have kids.

Also, you are supposed to be justifying turning someone into a criminal and violently ostracising them from their home & neighbourhood. This requires more than just saying they are a bad parent. After all, we don't lock up or exile parents with a booze problem, or divorced mothers who sleep around or date violent boyfriends.

I will try to make it very clear -

A childless woman, for whatever reason, decides to try and charge money in return for offering sexual favours. In what way does that justify caging her like an animal and running her out of her homeland?

Your reasons so far:

i) the kids will suffer

Answer - she has no kids, so it's irrelevant. Even if she had kids, then she ought to be charged with being "not fit to bring up a child", just like an alcoholic or mentally disturbed parent, and have the kids taken into care, not have herself thrown in jail and exiled. It is "being a bad parent" you are objecting to here, not prostitution per se.

ii) you don't like it

Answer - "not liking something" does not justify the use of violence to prevent it, or making it a crime. There are many things people do not "like", that are perfectly legal, because it is someone's right to do unpopular things, as long as they do not harm non-consenting 3rd parties.

iii) it's "immoral"

Answer - so is swearing, calling your mother a bitch, worshipping Satan, being rude, cheating on your girlfriend, lying, and so on. None of these are jailable offences or considered "criminal".

iv) it offends community sensibilities

Answer - America is not a communist country. Property is private and generally owned by individuals, not owned communally by all. As long as the "offensiveness" is not taking place on public property, then it is none of the communities business. That is the whole idea of inalienable individual rights - people have natural liberty, that is *not* subject to being overriden by the sensibilities of the crowd. Every citizen in America could vote to jail Hilary Clinton for being annoying, but it would still be wrong to do so.

v) you wouldn't want your daughter to be a prostitute

No, I wouldn't. Equally, I wouldn't want her to have sex with Rupert Murdoch, or get drunk and flash her tits at a frat party. Please explain to me how that implies that it should be a criminal offence for a woman to shag 70-something billionaires or to flash her tits in private?

So, what is your reason for criminalising payment for sex? Please give a *reasoned* answer, based on logical inference from accepted axioms. Do not make up straw men, invent erroneous assumptions about your opponent's position, ask irrelevant questions, use ad hominem arguments, sarcastic remarks, or employ other schoolboy debating tricks in an attempt to dodge the issue.
More...

Trust me: I don't care or want to know what people do in their bedrooms. But let's face it: in the real world prostitutes have kids and kids will be affected by their lifestyle.

You're still completely missing my point. Again, I am arguing from a "what is good for kids and families in your community perspecitive?"

Look, someone asked the question, "What if I banned churches in your area?" I say "Great!" At least I will respect you. You took a moral stand. You are basically saying, like GG, that religion is the scourge of the earth and you are protecting your family from all of us religious zealots. I see that you realize that morality has consequences - it affects children and families. If you do nothing, I can't help but see someone who does not care about their community or their families.
 
There is a greater degree of risk for a hooker for rape, VD and violence, as she is coming into contact with more partners than women who have occasional partners, or men who have occasional partners. In addition, the odds of contracting VD are higher if association is with people who are more sexually active with multiple partners.

It is a pure numbers game. Anyone can do the math on this one.

Anyone who drives for a living has a higher probability of an auto accident than someone who drives occasionally.

Just statistical probability proves that.

Quote from tikipoki:

Any woman can get raped, also any woman can claim being raped and people can get sued. As for the risk in having sex with multiple partners, I too have that risk with one night stands from clubs or whatever, dont I?

No hooker-specific risk here, also, I was not telling people to marry a hooker!

Tiki
More...
 
Quote from Cutten:

If an attractive but uneducated woman can earn $100k+ per year as a hooker, that might be worth the "lack of respect" compared to working as a waitress or checkout girl on $15k.

If a man earned $100k+ screwing rich businesswomen, he wouldn't be treated like an outcast, so why the double standard? What is that except pure sexism?
More...

Who cares in either case? If either one of them has children, their kids will almost for sure be a disaster...
 
Wolves, beavers, gibbons, whales and a small African antelope known as a dik-dik - all of which represent different groups of animals - are among the mammals thought by scientists to live in stable, monogamous pairs. Among birds, some of the most famously faithful are penguins, cranes, pigeons, and parrots. Geese, swans, doves, and albatrosses are generally believed to remain totally faithful to one partner death do them part. In fact, swans have become the symbol of life-long romance in popular lore, because when they swim off together to mate, their heads touch and their necks form a heart shape.

Nearly 90 percent of all bird species are considered monogamous.

Gibbons, as well as orangutans and gorillas, are anthropoid apes, the primates that most closely resemble humans, physically and behaviorally. Regarded as monogamous, male and female gibbons pair up for life, forming a family that stays together until the offspring grow up and leave home. The bond between the couple is reinforced by the hours they spend grooming each other.

Quote from tikipoki:

name me those species! then add whether they are hunters or prey, just for fun!

Tiki
More...
 
Quote from ARogueTrader:

There is a greater degree of risk for a hooker for rape, VD and violence, as she is coming into contact with more partners than women who have occasional partners, or men who have occasional partners. In addition, the odds of contracting VD are higher if association is with people who are more sexually active with multiple partners.

It is a pure numbers game. Anyone can do the math on this one.

Anyone who drives for a living has a higher probability of an auto accident than someone who drives occasionally.

Just statistical probability proves that.
More...

Uh, no, professionality is a big big factor on this one;

person one is a busy housewife who hasnt REALLY got the time to pick up the kids, but hey its gotta be done and she takes the car and drives hastily to school, whilst doing her hair and talking on the cellphone. this woman has 1000 hours in a car per year

then there is the professional cabdriver who KNOWS traffic and knows his car like the back of his hand, total control over his own vehicle, great insights in the traffic, this man has 2000 hours in a car per year.

wanna bet that group #1 makes more accidents in a car?

person one is a party dude/girl that likes to party, get drunk and get funky, and fucks about 2 'strangers' a month, when fucking they are usually drunk or under influence of drugs, the lights are dim, the mood is there, if you just GO then there wont be a 'blabla condom' response from the chick you are going to fuck, and I promise you they wont search your dick for herpes or warts LOL :)

person two is a professional escort girl/hooker with respectable clients, she works in a club. All of her customers have to fuck her with a condom and she is never drunk on the job, also hookers check for sick shit that spreads even with condoms (herpes, warts) whilst giving hand/blowjobs, also I can assure you, unless you are meeting with a heroin hooker that needs the five bucks for some crack, they WONT fuck you if you are 'hot'

wanna bet that group # 1 gets more VD's?

ofcourse, a crackho will be a museum of rarities in the venerial disease, but so is a junkie who doesnt fuck for money or whomever did not succeed in his/her stuff.

so no, its not statistics amigo!

Tiki
 
Guys, I'm really enjoying the zoology lesson, but is this what moral discussions now degrade into? Discussions of animal mating and "monogamy" practices?

Am I supposed to raise my family based on what some Fluffy Breasted Loon does?
 
You like to argue statiscital apples to statistical oranges to make your point.

Invalid.


Quote from tikipoki:

Uh, no, professionality is a big big factor on this one;

person one is a busy housewife who hasnt REALLY got the time to pick up the kids, but hey its gotta be done and she takes the car and drives hastily to school, whilst doing her hair and talking on the cellphone. this woman has 1000 hours in a car per year

then there is the professional cabdriver who KNOWS traffic and knows his car like the back of his hand, total control over his own vehicle, great insights in the traffic, this man has 2000 hours in a car per year.

wanna bet that group #1 makes more accidents in a car?

person one is a party dude/girl that likes to party, get drunk and get funky, and fucks about 2 'strangers' a month, when fucking they are usually drunk or under influence of drugs, the lights are dim, the mood is there, if you just GO then there wont be a 'blabla condom' response from the chick you are going to fuck, and I promise you they wont search your dick for herpes or warts LOL :)

person two is a professional escort girl/hooker with respectable clients, she works in a club. All of her customers have to fuck her with a condom and she is never drunk on the job, also hookers check for sick shit that spreads even with condoms (herpes, warts) whilst giving hand/blowjobs, also I can assure you, unless you are meeting with a heroin hooker that needs the five bucks for some crack, they WONT fuck you if you are 'hot'

wanna bet that group # 1 gets more VD's?

ofcourse, a crackho will be a museum of rarities in the venerial disease, but so is a junkie who doesnt fuck for money or whomever did not succeed in his/her stuff.

so no, its not statistics amigo!

Tiki
More...
 
Quote from ARogueTrader:

Wolves, beavers, gibbons, whales and a small African antelope known as a dik-dik - all of which represent different groups of animals - are among the mammals thought by scientists to live in stable, monogamous pairs. Among birds, some of the most famously faithful are penguins, cranes, pigeons, and parrots. Geese, swans, doves, and albatrosses are generally believed to remain totally faithful to one partner death do them part. In fact, swans have become the symbol of life-long romance in popular lore, because when they swim off together to mate, their heads touch and their necks form a heart shape.

Nearly 90 percent of all bird species are considered monogamous.

Gibbons, as well as orangutans and gorillas, are anthropoid apes, the primates that most closely resemble humans, physically and behaviorally. Regarded as monogamous, male and female gibbons pair up for life, forming a family that stays together until the offspring grow up and leave home. The bond between the couple is reinforced by the hours they spend grooming each other.
More...

Wolves & the monkeys (gibbons, orangutans, gorillas) are not monogamous in the way you mean it, they do keep longer going relationships, but they do it in a harem kind of way (the alpha leader of the pack gets to fuck the females), like sultans. Thats polyamour. The wildlife & whales you speak about prey animals. The birds I dont know about, I did not get those classes (hey you gotta sleep SOME time, dont you?) so ill take that for true.

are these the kings of nature? do you want your kid to be a dik-dik or a lion? A sleeping oil worker or a 25ft. snake?

all men are not created equal, and in your nurturing you can form your kids ALOT. Your nurture can make the difference between your kid being the 'king of the jungle' or the 'afternoon dinner'

Tiki
 
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Guys, I'm really enjoying the zoology lesson, but is this what moral discussions now degrade into? Discussions of animal mating and "monogamy" practices?

Am I supposed to raise my family based on what some Fluffy Breasted Loon does?
More...

You said you wanted your kids to grow up to be safe and secure in this world we live in, right?

Then take a look at the other animals and see what happens there.

Tiki
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top