marriage and government

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from axeman:

Shoe:"And, by the way, why do I care what you do "in your bedroom"?? Kids. Another coincidence: the research shows that kids do best with a stable home life. "

You see Shoe.... what is funny to the atheists, is the fact
that you cant see the tree's through forest.

Look at what you just said:

The research shows that kids do best with a stable home life.

Here is a RATIONAL reason to argue for a model LIKE marriage.
Note: I think there are plenty of ways to have a "stable home life"
outside of the typical american marriage model. Just look at
some of the communal societies.

The point is... you just SHOWED US that you are perfectly
capable of coming up with a REASON **why** we should
form a society that attempts to have "stable home life" for
the children.

Okay, finally a post that makes some sense to me. Yes, this would be a beginning although I dislike the idea of doing something solely for "me". To me that's a bastardized form of hedonism.

I submit that you should think of your kids first. What happened to the nobility of a little self-sacrifice? It doesn't matter if you have to sacrifice your homo sapiens derrier for 20 years - just do it! Why not save his or her little brain from years and years of emotional pain?

Most of the ideas posted on this thread are a formula to emotionally scar and disadvantage a child.

 

[tikipoki]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

I am not forcing anything on them. Let them go to Nevada. And if they want a prostitute every night, let them move there. And let them take their troubles families with them...

You know, christian ringing of church bells and the muslim blabbering over the minaret really annoy me, one wakes me up and the other keeps me awake!

Let those fuckers go to greenland if they want to do their thing, wouldnt you say?

Whats the difference in me being annoyed by churches & mosques and the noise they create, and you being annoyed with prostitutes?

Tiki

 

[aphexcoil]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Did you ever stop to think how remarkable the longevity of the Sexual Revolution was? It went like a fire across the entire U.S. in less than a decade. And then less than a decade later was almost completely dead!

Why? The only ones who wanted the Sexual Revolution are 20 year old horn dogs (and maybe Gracie Slick). But for the rest of America that wanted a decent home life and kids that stood a reasonable chance, they flushed the 60's down the toilet...

I don't think you can say that sexual promiscuity = immoral behavior. Perhaps it isn't condoned by the church, but at our deepest level, we are just a bunch of sexual beings that want to spread our genes.

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from tikipoki:

You know, christian ringing of church bells and the muslim blabbering over the minaret really annoy me, one wakes me up and the other keeps me awake!

Let those fuckers go to greenland if they want to do their thing, wouldnt you say?

Whats the difference in me being annoyed by churches & mosques and the noise they create, and you being annoyed with prostitutes?

Tiki

Kids! Are you going to stand up for them or not in your community? I guess your answer is "no"!

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from aphexcoil:

I don't think you can say that sexual promiscuity = immoral behavior. Perhaps it isn't condoned by the church, but at our deepest level, we are just a bunch of sexual beings that want to spread our genes.

I'm trying to avoid the religious part of this. Since I am a theist, everyone is assuming that I am arguing for this, but I'm not.

I'm simply saying this:

1. "If you're going to have kids, then consider the fact that your unstable lifestyle may very well make their life a floating shipwreck."
2. "Communities and states have the right to enforce their own (Constitutional of course) standards that protect their families."

 

[ElCubano]

Quote from axeman:

Shoe... you are confusing your opponents CLAIM that
women should have a RIGHT to be a prostitute, and them
thinking that its actually a good idea.


I would NOT want my daughter being a prostitute for
MANY rational reasons...disease, social repercussions, etc...

But a consenting adult SHOULD have the right
to be a prostitute. Big difference.

You and the government do NOT have the right to tell
ME what I can do with my body. I am NOT your property OR
the governments.


peace

axeman

I tend to agree; an adult should be able to do with their body what they wish.....

But as far as the governments role you may be wrong....IN places that prostitution is legal the goverment has to be involved ( regulations, liscenses, taxes, etc....)

in places where it is not legal: They get invloved in ways they would for any other illegal activity...so in short they always have to be inolved with this certain activity....

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from tikipoki:

Childporn is porn without mutual consent (childporn = with kids under the age of consent, duh.), we are talking about sex under mutual consent to start off with.

How can prostitution be detrimental to kids if
1) the kids dont prostitute
2) the kids dont visit a prostitute

??

Aside from that, do you think gambling & drinking are good for families? Do you think that violent tv is good for families? Do you think MacDonalds is good for families (god kids are fat these days!) ? Do you think living in LA is good for kids (good for a smokers cancer maybe, but you know what im aiming at)?

do you think we should keep kids weak by protecting them before they plunge into the real world, or do you think its better to give them a realistic view of the world, tell them about it, educate them, and then send them in knowing what they could meet?

Tiki

Are you seriously arguing that placing a child around prostitution will help him or her? Using this argument, I'll just sleep with a different gal every night - that'll help my little guy understand what the real world is like!

Let me propose another plan: I'll let him read about all this stuff in a book or a TV documentary. Then he can make a decision w/o actually walking past the strips clubs, adult bookstores, massage parlors and Mustang Ranches on his way to elementary school. I like that idea a lot better for some reason.

If that's what you want for your kids, great. I just hope the people in my community don't think the way you do.

And, yes, I think communities and states should be allowed to keep legalized gambling out of their communities if that's what the community wants.

 

[Turok]

>"Don't label us all as Ted Turner Hollywood types."
>Instead I find that he is your king!

>All I can say is this: are there any atheists out there
>who are actually willing to take a moral stand?

Ok Shoe, I was wrong. You really are no different than GG. You don't really want to have an educational exchange, you simply wish to crank people by making grand and inflamatory statements about particular groups.

Do you remember how GG bothered you that way just yesterday? Apparently your morals allow you to treat others with disrespect thus your morals offer me nothing. If you wish to convince someone that your morals are attractive, begin with demonstration.

I'll strive for mine thank you.

Bye
JB

 

[tikipoki]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Kids! Are you going to stand up for them or not in your community? I guess your answer is "no"!

Since I am no community man I will answer for me personally, and that is;

1) I will protect my kids as long as they cannot do that themselves
2) I better damn well educate them what they can meet and what can happen to them in life, only to prepare them a *little* for what may happen later.

I want my children to have the instinct of hunters, and if they want to be do-goods and charity people, fine, but at least they know how they could get conned, how people could hurt them and how to avoid that, that will make them a lot more strong and safe. If they want to be predators and play the rough game of life, fine, too, at least my daughters would know not to get beat up by a pimp, not to accept all customers, my son would know that if you play rough, you get played rough, they would know as much as I ccould teach them what games they can play in life and what the rules are.

Now take the kids if good ole' Ned Flanders who lives in hippelydickelydoodooville, there is no crime, no pollution, everyone is honest & law abiding, prostitutes were kicked out to california and for all the kids know, people meet, then get married, then kiss eachother for the first time and make a baby.

If these children want to be do-gooders in a small ville like that, or charity people in such a community, they would do just fine. But imagine the kids going to the big city.. Your son finds the love of his life, is hopelessly devoted and in love, but for her he is just a fling. BOOM. Heart broken, doesnt know what to do, thinks he is a miserable failure. Oh and then there is business, someone comes up with a great idea which is guaranteed money and you save the panda bear in the process, too. Having known only the holy of life, the boy donates his hard-earned $100.000 he was going to use to downpay his house, and boom, gone.

We live in an ocean man, and I dont want my kids to think the nastiest creature is a seacucumber. I want them to know what sharks and snakes do, and I want them to be able to be a shark or a snake if they want to. Thats called preparing them to survive!

Harr!

Tiki

 

[tikipoki]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Are you seriously arguing that placing a child around prostitution will help him or her? Using this argument, I'll just sleep with a different gal every night - that'll help my little guy understand what the real world is like!

Let me propose another plan: I'll let him read about all this stuff in a book or a TV documentary. Then he can make a decision w/o actually walking past the strips clubs, adult bookstores, massage parlors and Mustang Ranches on his way to elementary school. I like that idea a lot better for some reason.

If that's what you want for your kids, great. I just hope the people in my community don't think the way you do.

And, yes, I think communities and states should be allowed to keep legalized gambling out of their communities if that's what the community wants.

So you will let your kid read a book about trading and them popping him down with a 10 mil account? haha better have some extra savings (spare kids) because then it will be eaten RAW

Tiki