Market System of Operation

[llIHeroic]

Quote from frenchfry:

You posted a first iteration of the log for five days. With this there where challenges with degapping, identification of price cases, UL and maybe some other things.

Do you have the confirmation that each line in your logs was filled in correctly?

Anyway, go back to those five logs and start to use the volume test procedure. Start with the first day and maybe only start with the first page. Get confirmation that what you filled in is correct. Ask questions which came up during that process. Post the log with the chart showing the bars of that log. Then move on to the next pages and next logs. Then there will be a new iteration and so on.

If you try to "swallow" too much at the same time it will become difficult.

Thank you for your continued help with my learning process. Your post is an excellent help for me to re-focus on what the best thing to be doing is.

Can you please review this Log Page 1 that I tried to do for Jack's posted chart of [12-19]? I have two questions.

#1 - Bar 3: What is the correct way to draw an rtl? Do we draw one whenever possible starting from an EE bar to the next, and then any close outside of it from T1 and onward is BO T1?

#2 - Bar 15: What is the correct way to carry out the volume test procedure on this bar? Jack's chart ends up with a PP5a, but I do not know how to test correctly to get that result. Here was my procedure, can you please show me the error?

a. In order to test the top row of the OB on Bar 15, I drop down from P2 cell because it was the last T, and test for repeat. Repeat P2 is false because volume is not greater than P2.

b. We begin Reverse Chronology test now. T1 is Killed after P2 onward, so we test for P1. Volume is greater than last P1, so P1 is True. Assign P1 to top row.

c. The bottom row of OB is always NEXT. With NEXT, we assign the next Volume Element in the OOE. We have P1, T1, and P2, so T2P is assigned to the bottom row.

---

Log Page Attached.

 

[llIHeroic]

Jack [12-19] Chart Re-Posted.

 

[frenchfry]

Quote from llIHeroic:

Thank you for your continued help with my learning process. Your post is an excellent help for me to re-focus on what the best thing to be doing is.

Can you please review this Log Page 1 that I tried to do for Jack's posted chart of [12-19]? I have two questions.

#1 - Bar 3: What is the correct way to draw an rtl? Do we draw one whenever possible starting from an EE bar to the next, and then any close outside of it from T1 and onward is BO T1?

#2 - Bar 15: What is the correct way to carry out the volume test procedure on this bar? Jack's chart ends up with a PP5a, but I do not know how to test correctly to get that result. Here was my procedure, can you please show me the error?

a. In order to test the top row of the OB on Bar 15, I drop down from P2 cell because it was the last T, and test for repeat. Repeat P2 is false because volume is not greater than P2.

b. We begin Reverse Chronology test now. T1 is Killed after P2 onward, so we test for P1. Volume is greater than last P1, so P1 is True. Assign P1 to top row.

c. The bottom row of OB is always NEXT. With NEXT, we assign the next Volume Element in the OOE. We have P1, T1, and P2, so T2P is assigned to the bottom row.

---

Log Page Attached.

So let's see if I can answer your questions quickly. My expertise is rather in detecting if your learning process is on track or if it is derailed. For knowing if something is correct or not I would rather prefer Jack to answer as long as he can.

Back to yor questions....

1. With bar 3 you had a BO/T1. You assign that bar a P1. Did you notice the green bookmark line? When you work in the top halve of the Modrian table, in failsafe, you put a bookmark ASAP. What do you need to draw a line? Two points. The bookmark shows you which direction you are expecting... to get your second point (bar)... But as you see on bar four you can not draw the line in the direction you expected. Can you follow?

2. I see in your log that you stopped the rev chron at P1. Look at Jack's chart. Where do you come from? P1, T1, and P2. What is next? What is normally next after P2? What do you do when you also have a F in the P1 column? Does this help?

 

[xioxxio]

Quote from jack hershey:

Ac HVBO

You have three P1's BUT they do NOT accelerate. So you always chack for acceleration which gives a PP1.

A NOT PP1 sets the scene for an Ac. you get a T1 to P2 then you are in the A band. Internals can happen on the way.

If the bar comes along thaat is a HVBO of the band, then you have an Ac.

Hi Jack, previously internals were a strict requirement, is the above a new revision of the Ac band?

Quote from jack hershey:

Ad HVBO

You absorbed the Aa HVBO

this sequence is similar BUT.....

You get a P1 or P1's to T1 to P2....... there is an internal somewhere as well ....

But there is no T2P to give you a four bar (with internal).......

What happens on the next TWO bars are P1's.

The second consecutive P1 is designated Ad HVBO.

Whew!!!!!

previously there was no requirement for internal, has this also been revised?

 

[frenchfry]

Quote from workwithus:

I got the same result as you.See the attached band A(very narrow) on 12-19-13 chart with "zones" available on bar 15.Volume lands in the P1 "zone".So it's the top row of OB assignment.Next OOE is T2P so it should be the bottom assignment.Hmm.

I am thinking... which can be wrong as usual:

Normally... if you follow the volume test procedure on the log sheet... you can NOT go directly from P1 (which you assigned on the top row) to a T2P. None of the PP4 and PP5's allow this.

What comes normally after P2? What comes normally after T2P? How can you suddenly have a P1 in between?

 

[llIHeroic]

Hmm, seems like we're all unsure of this situation with Bar 15 on [12-19].

There are situations when the volume test procedure goes from P1 to T2P. Here is an example.

Bar 1 = 10,000 [P1]

Bar 2 = 5,000 [P1 Repeat False, T1 Assigned]

Bar 3 = 9,000 [T1 Repeat False, P1 Killed, P2 Assigned]

Bar 4 = 15,000 [P2 Repeat is True, T1 is Killed, P1 is True -> Re-Assign P1]

Bar 5 = 7,500 [P1 is False, T1 is Killed, P2 is False, T2P Assigned]

I've looked through all of the EE sheets and I don't think this series of Volume Elements triggers any of them. Feel free to point out any errors.

---

As long as we're on [12-19], I thought I would post my other two questions for the day that came up.

1. On Bar 52, both a BM REV and a PP4 occur, which cause two turns to happen on the same bar. Later on with Bar 76, two End Effects occur as well [BO T1 and PP3], but only trigger one turn. Can someone who understands this provide more information so I can know how to differentiate these two situations?

2. On Bar 67 - 73, we have a lateral which I've taken from Jack's chart and De-Gapped in paint to make sure I have it correct. It is attached below. On Bar 70 a RETRO is triggered, so we go and measure all of the volume elements. Bar 66 was a BM REV c turn, so it is assigned P1 and the trend is up.

Bar 67 tests True for P1 Repeat. [P1 x2]
Bar 68 has lower volume, so once RETRO is triggered, it False for P1 and T1 is assigned. [T1]
Bar 69 is True for T1 Repeat. [T1 x2]
Bar 70 is False for T1 Repeat, P1 is Killed, so P2 is Assigned.

Bar 71 has volume lower than T1, so EE Ab is triggered. One of the P1 rules is: "Do P1 on bar of failsafe EE's and A band EE's." So, P1 is assigned on Bar 71.

Bar 72 is true for P1 Repeat. [P1 x2].
Bar 73 is true for P1 Repeat. [P1 x3].

Here is my question: We have three P1's with acceleration, why isn't PP1 annotated here?

 

[frenchfry]

Quote from llIHeroic:

Hmm, seems like we're all unsure of this situation with Bar 15 on [12-19].

There are situations when the volume test procedure goes from P1 to T2P. Here is an example.

Bar 1 = 10,000 [P1]

Bar 2 = 5,000 [P1 Repeat False, T1 Assigned]

Bar 3 = 9,000 [T1 Repeat False, P1 Killed, P2 Assigned]

Bar 4 = 15,000 [P2 Repeat is True, T1 is Killed, P1 is True -> Re-Assign P1]

Bar 5 = 7,500 [P1 is False, T1 is Killed, P2 is False, T2P Assigned]

I've looked through all of the EE sheets and I don't think this series of Volume Elements triggers any of them. Feel free to point out any errors.

Your challenge can be seen at bar 4. How can you have a P1? What makes you first assign it a P2 and then make it a P1? When/how in the order of events can you come from one point suddenly back to the beginning with a P1? Workwithus had the same issue.

Anyway... maybe it will become clearer for you next year.

Jack, thanks for sharing everything you did in 2013. Let's hope for more in 2014!

 

[llIHeroic]

Quote from frenchfry:

Your challenge can be seen at bar 4. How can you have a P1? What makes you first assign it a P2 and then make it a P1? When/how in the order of events can you come from one point suddenly back to the beginning with a P1? Workwithus had the same issue.

Anyway... maybe it will become clearer for you next year.

Jack, thanks for sharing everything you did in 2013. Let's hope for more in 2014!

We are getting P1 because of the leftmost rule. I think perhaps you have a mis-understanding of how to carry out the Volume Test Procedure in regards to this.

Quote from jack hershey:

...If you have T for more than one peak, then you use the "leftmost" peak. P1 wins a lot of these tests...

 

[llIHeroic]

Quote from workwithus:

Question on jack's 12-16-13 chart.He annotates a BO T1 on b57 but degapped i have an decreasing volume internal and per jack's latest comments the rtl would be fanned so no BO T1? Instead bar 57 is a wait bar and the BO T1 comes on bar 58 resulting in a PP4 on bar 58.Is this correct? http://screencast.com/t/3TGwhkEt http://screencast.com/t/geRQIIRX

I was uncertain about this as well. I have some questions on [12-16] as well but hope to get some of the current ones can be answered by participants before all of the questions get buried by too many. I zoomed in and De-Gapped Jack's chart in paint and Bar 57 looks like FBP with WAIT even though it isn't annotated there. We already discussed fanning the rtl and noted that it was done for Bar 28 on [12-20]. I do not know enough to differentiate these two situations.

In the case that Bar 57 is actually a WAIT, I believe you are right with the PP4 ending. We would assign T1 to the top row of the OB on Bar 58, and the top row would trigger BO T1, and would be assigned P1. The NEXT would assign T1 to the bottom and trigger PP4 as you said.

We see this effect on Bar 52 of [12-19] where a failsafe on the top row of an OB triggers PP4 on the bottom.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from workwithus:

Your not going back to beginning of OOE every time you get a P1.If the band A has been created (P1,T1 and P2 assigned) then the next measurable bar you can get a P1 or P2.Each new measurable bar can change the band A and the next bar's "zones".The size of the "zones" can change and which "zones" are available for measurement on the next bar can change.(This is assuming no EE's or failsafes appear).So what i'm working thru now is what if an Ob shows up on the next measurable bar after the band A is created? Or on a subsequent measurable bar?

Very very good comment