Market System of Operation

[smwbbe]

Quote from jack hershey:

sheet 2 20th

I was wondering about the same area that Heroic was, but for different reasons - Bar 28 on 12/20/13.

After the BM REV on bar 26, it is assigned as a P1 and the direction changes from short to long. A BookMark would be placed at the bottom of bar 26 and an RTL would be drawn from bar 26 to bar 27 (P1 to T1). Bar 28 closes outside of that RTL but it wasn't designated as a BO,T1.

Is that an error?
OR
Is the RTL fanned because it's a formation - even though the 2nd bar of the formation has higher vol and is used rather than being designated a 'wait' bar?

 

[llIHeroic]

Short Review:

1. We have completed the recognition of Price Cases and Volume Permission.

2. We have been practicing and perfecting knowing the Volume Test Procedure. Knowing the OOE of Volume Elements in a trend also comes with this.

3. End Effects are being reviewed, organized and practiced by participants and questions are being answered.

4. I will be attempting to log price cases and the volume test procedure for each day. I am still trying to build LTM of the End Effects in order to assist with the logging process.

5. More completed logs of the five drill days from [12-16] to [12-20] will be posted. All of the charts have been posted and [12-20] correct log has been posted.

Please let me know if there are any more current items of the learning process that I have not included in the review. We will continue these steps until more instructions are given, and I will keep reviewing the thread in order to absorb the material more and more fully.

---

I was studying the End Effects, and I came across Ba and Bc again. I was not familiar with INT UL, but I eventually found that it stands for INT(ernal). Here is my understanding of these End Effects. Perhaps it will help other learners to know them, and also give an opportunity for an error by me to be pointed out if I have committed one.

Ba EE = After T2P occurs and Volume Band B is active, a P2 that is greater than P1, or an interal case which gives permission and has volume that is greater than T2P but less than P2 both trigger Ba.

Bc EE = After T2P occurs and Volume Band B is active, volume that is measured between P2 and P1 triggers Bc.

Quote from jack hershey:

You have a sheet for all the b through K bands.

Here is a run down on these 12 EE's found in various non A bands. I will do A band last.

Ba and Bc

Ba is common and Bc is not seen. Ba is found when P1<P2 Or int UL AND the volume is between P2 and T2P.

If P2<P1, the Bc volume is between P2 and P1.

 

[tiddlywinks]

I've accumulated 15 different 2013 annotated charts posted by JH.
As a learning aid for myself I did a manual frequency count of the EE annotations.

Findings were kinda surprising, and show me where to immediately focus.
Hopefully other beginners may find this useful.

Top 3 EE in order of frequency based on my very small sample set.

PP1
PP3
Ab LVBO
BO/T1 and BM/REV appear nearly as frequently as the Top 3 EE.

Still In order of frequency, these EEs have frequency of 1/3 or less versus the Top 3
PP6
PP4
Ae HVBO .....\
PP5 .............Tied
PP2 ............./

Several other EEs appear in the sample as singletons or triple as largest.
Again, this is based on a sample of only 15 different annotated charts from 2013.

Have a nice weekend

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from smwbbe:

I was wondering about the same area that Heroic was, but for different reasons - Bar 28 on 12/20/13.

After the BM REV on bar 26, it is assigned as a P1 and the direction changes from short to long. A BookMark would be placed at the bottom of bar 26 and an RTL would be drawn from bar 26 to bar 27 (P1 to T1). Bar 28 closes outside of that RTL but it wasn't designated as a BO,T1.

Consult the facets of RTL's in channel geometry. In particular, there is a requirement that has to do with fanning. Fanning is based upon "internals" See the log I posted for these bars.

Is that an error?

We do make errors. But, since three or more skilled persons are participating @ 100% plus, then few errors occur
OR
Is the RTL fanned because it's a formation - even though the 2nd bar of the formation has higher vol and is used rather than being designated a 'wait' bar?

Failsafe is used to prevent a person from losing money. Two price annotations accomplish this: BM's and rtl's of sub fractals. Consult channel theory (my channel theory and NOT the casual drawing of lines as seen in ET

If an rtl is "in" an internal, then the rtl is fanned so the internal is made part of the channel. Closes are examined as the trend moves forward.

At bar 31, MADA precipitated two EE's as an AND event. Modrian Table creates a "c" type turn in the trend type C column.

The solid red box indicates that in 30 minute style strategy trading a reversal show locks in profits and a new profit taking segment begins.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from tiddlywinks:

I've accumulated 15 different 2013 annotated charts posted by JH.
As a learning aid for myself I did a manual frequency count of the EE annotations.

Findings were kinda surprising, and show me where to immediately focus.
Hopefully other beginners may find this useful.

Top 3 EE in order of frequency based on my very small sample set.

PP1
PP3
Ab LVBO
BO/T1 and BM/REV appear nearly as frequently as the Top 3 EE.

Still In order of frequency, these EEs have frequency of 1/3 or less versus the Top 3
PP6
PP4
Ae HVBO .....\
PP5 .............Tied
PP2 ............./

Several other EEs appear in the sample as singletons or triple as largest.
Again, this is based on a sample of only 15 different annotated charts from 2013.

Have a nice weekend

This is very helpful.

Usually when iterative refinement is being done, this kind of data is very useful.

Thanks for adding more trading context.

 

[llIHeroic]

I attempted to create a small review of Volume Test Procedure and Volume Band OOE. If someone could review the image and give me some feedback, I would appreciate it.

I definitely feel that my understanding of the Test Procedure has been getting better than it initially was, and I am still relatively new to knowing how to manage the Volume Bands.

Edit: I believe P1 is tested as well for #9, and is F. Didn't get that on the image.

 

[frenchfry]

Quote from llIHeroic:

I attempted to create a small review of Volume Test Procedure and Volume Band OOE. If someone could review the image and give me some feedback, I would appreciate it.

I definitely feel that my understanding of the Test Procedure has been getting better than it initially was, and I am still relatively new to knowing how to manage the Volume Bands.

Edit: I believe P1 is tested as well for #9, and is F. Didn't get that on the image.

When you test for a repeat then you have to test a repeat for all elements to your left not only the last element. See your step number 4. You only tested for a repeat of T1 but not a repeat of P1. So every time go through the whole list to your left.

 

[llIHeroic]

Quote from frenchfry:

When you test for a repeat then you have to test a repeat for all elements to your left not only the last element. See your step number 4. You only tested for a repeat of T1 but not a repeat of P1. So every time go through the whole list to your left.

Thank you for the feedback.

I thought P1 would currently be KILLED on #4 since T1 is in effect. It is KILLED until it's GATE after P2, or am I mis-understanding something?

 

[llIHeroic]

Quote from workwithus:

Thank you smwbbe for your excellent help.I have attached what i believe to be the possible volume element id's or EE that could occur in this exact same situation on bar 29 after P2 depending on where b29 volume falls in relation to band A or P1,T1 and P2.We know if volume is above band A(in this case the P1 max contracts) on b29 then we have another P1 per smwbbe and the volume element sheet but what if volume is not above P1? What if it's below P1 but above P2(very narrow in this situation only 142 contract range) then i believe its another P2. What if below P2 but above T1 then it's a T2P which creates band B.What if it's below the T1(below band A) then it's an Ab EE.HTH.http://www.sierrachart.com/image.php?l=1388284119423.png

My 2¢:

[1] Bar 29 Volume exceeds P1 = Ag EE. P1 would be assigned to Bar 29 but not because of the volume procedure test. All Band A EE assign P1 to Bar.0

***This is what makes sense to me, but Bar 29 on Jack's log does not have an Ag. More on this below.

[2] Bar 29 Volume is below P1 but above P2 = P2 is True, Re-assign P2 with once acceleration. We agree.

[3] Bar 29 Volume is below P2 but above T1 = P2 is F, T1 is Killed, P1 is F ---> All F assigns T2P. We agree

[4] Bar 29 Volume is below T1 = Ab EE. We agree.

---

I see that Jack didn't annotate Ag on Bar 29, but they do appear on Bar 24 and Bar 62. I don't understand why though. Under Ag Additional Requirements, "Just After P2" is listed, but the Bar 24 Ag occurs after a T2P. Perhaps I am mis-interpreting the terminology and this means a P2 must have already occured, and Ag does not have to be DIRECTLY after the first P2 assignment.

However, this second case is more puzzling to me. I can't differentiate between Bar 62 of [12-20] and this example of Bar 29 where Ag is not logged. They appear to be the same situation of a P1, T1, P2 assignment having occurred in the span of three bars, and the fourth Bar is T for both P2 and P1, which triggers Ag. However, there is only Ag for Bar 62 and not Bar 29.

---

Edit: Added additional elaboration.

 

[smwbbe]

Quote from workwithus:
Thank you smwbbe for your excellent help. I have attached what I believe to be the possible volume element id's or EE that could occur in this exact same situation on bar 29 after P2 depending on where b29 volume falls in relation to band A or P1, T1 and P2. We know if volume is above band A (in this case the P1 max contracts) on b29 then we have another P1 per smwbbe and the volume element sheet but
[1] What if volume is not above P1?
[2] What if it's below P1 but above P2 (very narrow in this situation only 142 contract range) then I believe its another P2.
[3] What if below P2 but above T1 then it's a T2P which creates band B.
[4] What if it's below the T1 (below band A) then it's an Ab EE. http://www.sierrachart.com/image.ph...88284119423.png

Quote from llIHeroic: SNIP
My 2¢:
[1] Bar 29 Volume exceeds P1 = Ag EE. P1 would be assigned to Bar 29 but not because of the volume procedure test. All Band A EE assign P1 to Bar.0
***This is what makes sense to me, but Bar 29 on Jack's log does not have an Ag.

[2] Bar 29 Volume is below P1 but above P2 = P2 is True, Re-assign P2 with once acceleration. We agree.
[3] Bar 29 Volume is below P2 but above T1 = P2 is F, T1 is Killed, P1 is F ---> All F assigns T2P. We agree.
[4] Bar 29 Volume is below T1 = Ab EE. We agree.

I believe the outstanding issue is with the first question. Agreement seems to occur with 2, 3 and 4.

Hero - If I understood the way JH recently explained EE, Ag, it's slightly different than your understanding. One thing JH pointed out was that the “A” Band EEs are “4-bar” EEs - you need P1, T1, P2 and T2P. For some of the EEs, it’s the 4th bar that triggers the EE assignment and with Ag, the T2P is replaced with a HVBO.

As you noted, volume items are gated and killed based on what has occurred already in a trend. Once T1 is assigned, you can’t have a P1 until a P2 is assigned. The way I read Ag, is that you have a P1, T1 and P2. If assigned, P2 has a wide berth and must be greater than T1 but can also exceed P1 (nature of Band A). If greater than P1, then you check to see if the NEXT bar is a repeat - or another P1 &#8658; Ag.

In this instance (bar 29, 12/20/13), the first of the three elements are present, but the initial P2 assignment (bar 28) was NOT greater than the P1 (bar 26). Bar 29 came around and because a P2 had been assigned, you're permitted to assign a subsequent P1, Slight distinction, but I think a very important distinction and I believe why the EE wasn't noted on JH's chart.