Marines killed Iraqis ‘in cold blood’

Quote from hapaboy:

Relativistic nonsense.

When Bush starts picking up critics off the street and feeds them feet-first into woodcutters, the Republican party starts receving 100% of the popular vote, his family members go around raping and torturing at will, and he silences all dissent (media, academia, etc.), then you can start asking if Bush is any better than Saddam.

I believe I used the words 'striking similarities'. I don't believe I said 'equal' did I?

Your remarks are quite frankly boringly obvious and don't really deserve a response to be frank. Guess it must be your lucky day that I did. :)
 
Quote from StreamlineTrade:

I believe I used the words 'striking similarities'. I don't believe I said 'equal' did I?

Your remarks are quite frankly boringly obvious and don't really deserve a response to be frank. Guess it must be your lucky day that I did. :)
When Bush starts picking up critics off the street and feeds them feet-first into woodcutters, the Republican party starts receving 100% of the popular vote, his family members go around raping and torturing at will, and he silences all dissent (media, academia, etc.), then you can start using the words "striking similarities."

Your remarks are, frankly, relativistic nonsense.
 
Quote from mahram:

hapaboy....this is basically My Lai II. And I hope these marines are sentenced to death or life in prison. These soldiers killed freaking children for god sakes. Can you tell me, you can let baby killers go free.
No, if it is true, it is not My Lai II. The scale is vastly different.

If it is true, then those who are guilty should indeed be punished.
 
Quote from hapaboy:

Yes, it is obvious that you jump to conclusions. I was in favor of the invasion, but I have been critical of the way Bush has handled it.
More troops, for starters.

Unfortunately, you like to assume that anyone who was in favor of the invasion has no criticisms of the way it was handled.

I grow weary of your assumptions. Whereas before you used to make decent points, now you're all about knee-jerk reactions. I'm very tempted to put you on Ignore.

and how would you like it to be handled? let me guess?!

you guys...the only annoyance to you is "SOME" of the damn media that keeps on exposing your crimes against the people you love to call rag heads.

the moral corruption runs deep in you guys....way deep!
 
The damn media!!


By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 34 minutes ago

The U.S. military is bracing for a major scandal over the alleged slaying of Iraqi civilians by Marines in Haditha — charges so serious they could threaten President Bush's effort to rally support at home for an increasingly unpopular war.

And while the case has attracted little attention so far in Iraq, it still could enflame hostility to the U.S. presence just as Iraq's new government is getting established, and complicate efforts by moderate Sunni Arab leaders to reach out to their community — the bedrock of the insurgency.

U.S. lawmakers have been told the criminal investigation will be finished in about 30 days. But a Pentagon official said investigators believe Marines committed unprovoked murder in the deaths of about two dozen people at Haditha in November.

With a political storm brewing, the top U.S. Marine, Gen. Michael W. Hagee, is headed to Iraq to personally deliver the message that troops should use deadly force "only when justified, proportional and, most importantly, lawful."

Haditha is not the only case pending: On Wednesday, the military announced an investigation into allegations that Marines killed a civilian April 26 near Fallujah. The statement gave no further details except that "several service members" had been sent back to the United States "pending the results of the criminal investigation."

Last July, Iraq's ambassador to the United Nations, Samir al-Sumaidaie, accused the Marines of killing his 21-year-old cousin in cold blood during a search of his family's home in Haditha, a city of about 90,000 people along the Euphrates River 140 miles northwest of Baghdad.

The military ordered a criminal investigation but the results have not been announced.

Together, the cases present the most serious challenge to U.S. handling of the Iraq war since the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, which Bush cited Thursday as "the biggest mistake that's happened so far, at least from our country's involvement in Iraq."

"What happened at Haditha appears to be outright murder," said Marc Garlasco of Human Rights Watch. "It has the potential to blow up in the U.S. military's face."

He said that "the Haditha massacre will go down as Iraq's My Lai," a reference to the Vietnam War incident in which American soldiers slaughtered up to 500 civilians in 1968.

The Haditha case involves both the alleged killing of civilians and a purported cover-up of the events that unfolded Nov. 19.

That day, Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, 20, of El Paso, Texas, was killed by a roadside bomb in Haditha, a Sunni Arab city considered among the most hostile areas of Iraq.

After the blast, insurgents attacked a joint U.S.-Iraqi patrol with small-arms fire, triggering a gunbattle that left eight insurgents and 15 Iraqi civilians dead, the Marines said in a statement issued the following day.

That version stood for four months until a videotape shot by an Iraqi journalism student surfaced, obtained by Time magazine and then by Arab television stations. The tape showed the bodies of women and children, some in their nightclothes.

Although the tape did not prove Marines were responsible, the military began an investigation. Residents came forward with claims that Marines entered two homes and killed 15 people, including a 3-year-old girl and a 76-year-old man — more than four hours after the roadside bombing.

It isn't clear if questions have been raised about the eight slain people that the Marines described as insurgents.

In March, Lt. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, the No. 2 U.S. commander in Iraq, said about a dozen Marines were under investigation for possible war crimes in the incident. Three officers from the unit involved have been relieved of their posts.

Such incidents have reinforced the perception among many Iraqis who believe American troops are trigger-happy — a characterization U.S. officers strongly dispute.

"America in the view of many Iraqis has no credibility. We do not believe what they say is correct," said Sheik Sattar al-Aasaf, a tribal leader in Anbar province, which includes Haditha. "U.S. troops are a very well-trained and when they shoot, it isn't random but due to an order to kill Iraqis. People say they are the killers."

Ayda Aasran, a deputy human rights minister, said Iraqis should be allowed to investigate such cases — something the U.S. command has refused to permit.

Sunni political leaders will find it difficult to defend U.S. actions, even those aimed at establishing the truth, if they want to maintain their position as leaders of the Iraqi minority that provides most of the insurgents.

Even if criminal charges are brought in the Haditha incident, Sunni insurgents are likely to claim the case is simply a charade and argue that the Marines will escape serious punishment.

Haditha, site of a major hydroelectric dam, has long been considered a tough case. It is among a string of Euphrates Valley towns used by insurgents and foreign fighters to infiltrate from Syria to reach Baghdad and the Sunni heartland.

Many Marines have complained to journalists that they conduct repeated sweeps through villages to drive out the insurgents, who then reappear when the Americans leave. That has bred a sense of frustration among troops fighting a difficult war with no end in sight.

Reporters who embedded in Haditha several months before the alleged massacre said Marines considered the town as enemy territory, with frequent roadside bombings. During patrols inside the city, Marines treated inhabitants like terrorists, raiding their homes.

An Associated Press journalist who traveled in Haditha last June with a Marine unit not involved in the November killings saw a Marine urinate on the kitchen floor of a home and on another occasion saw insults chalked in English on the gate of an Arab home. The reporter asked a Marine commander about the incident and was told it would be investigated.

Last August, the British newspaper The Guardian reported that Haditha was under the control of religious extremists who enforced their own strict interpretation of Islamic law — including decapitations of people suspected of collaborating with the Americans.

"This is a war in which the distinction between killing the enemy and massacring civilians is not always completely obvious," said John Pike of GlobalSecurity.org. "Counterinsurgency operations are particularly prone to the killing of people who, in retrospect, are judged to have been innocent civilians, but who in the heat of battle seemed to be the enemy."

Some analysts, however, say the killings of civilians also reflect frustration among young troops fighting a difficult war with no end in sight. They say these young fighters have been thrust into an alien culture for repeated tours in a war whose strategy many of them do not understand.

"What we're seeing more of now, and these incidents will increase monthly, is the end result of fuzzy, imprecise national direction combined with situational ethics at the highest levels of this government," said retired Air Force Col. Mike Turner, a former planner at the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
___

Robert H. Reid is correspondent at large for The Associated Press and has reported frequently from Iraq since 2003.
___

Associated Press writer Jacob Silberberg contributed to this report.
 
Quote from StreamlineTrade:

An intelligent and objective post.

Something I find interesting in the Iraq situation is the past of the new government that has been elected in Iraq. The Dawa party were infact the very same people who tried to assassinate Saddam Hussain some years back - leading to Saddams retaliation that he is now rightly standing trial for.

The Dawa party are by our definitions terrorists, especially when we look at history and their tactics thus employed. Are they no different from the people of Palestine who we love to condemn? Also, the war on terror has been proven to use the very same tactics that Saddam used against Dawa party supporters in Gitmo.

So why is Saddam on trial? He was only defending his interests against terrorists, and he used the exact same methods against them (namely torture) as we, the Americans are responsible for against our enemy - the terrorists.

Is our president any better than Saddam? We must admit, there are some striking similarities in behavior and attitude.

wow!!

how fucking true...thank you very much streamline trade.
 
24 dead iraqis and you are saying it is not a masscre. There is no way to spin this. Dead children and woman in their pajamas. Dead in their beds. Killed in execution style. You cant say they were armed. It is nothing but cold blooded murder. But my question is will they even serve any time. They will probably be let free.

Quote from hapaboy:

No, if it is true, it is not My Lai II. The scale is vastly different.

If it is true, then those who are guilty should indeed be punished.
 
Quote from kissanmakeup:

and how would you like it to be handled? let me guess?!
Okay, go ahead and guess.

you guys...the only annoyance to you is "SOME" of the damn media that keeps on exposing your crimes against the people you love to call rag heads.
Show me a single post of mine where I refer to anyone as a "rag head." C'mon, show it....Don't accuse me of racism, you idiot.

the moral corruption runs deep in you guys....way deep!
You don't know anything about me.

Please cease and desist from your unfounded accusations.
 
Quote from mahram:

24 dead iraqis and you are saying it is not a masscre. There is no way to spin this. Dead children and woman in their pajamas. Dead in their beds. Killed in execution style. You cant say they were armed. It is nothing but cold blooded murder. But my question is will they even serve any time. They will probably be let free.
Can you read?

Where did I say "this is not a massacre"? What I said was it was not My Lai II as the scale is vastly different.

Do you even know how many people were killed at My Lai?

Welcome to the Ignore club.
 
and the prize of the biggest fucking nazi goes to....


Quote from neophyte321:

War is ugly.

For all you know, the guy that was shot was responsible for the deaths of hundred's of civilians. Perhaps he sent his son into a mosque strapped with bombs. "Innocent"... something tells me the marines wouldn't randomly pick a house. This isn't an endorsement for killing people in cold blood.

In any event, I give OURs the benefit of the doubt. The crowd that marches in their own American streets burning effigages of the president, and dressing him up in Nazi gear, do not. They side with our enemies.

People lash out at others who post photos of dead iraqi's, because they realize the vast majority of american soldiers are risking life and limb to help them.

It's offensive, and certainly doesn't open up dialog.

Youth is no excuse.
 
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