Nelson DeMille: Word of Honor
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Marines killed Iraqis âin cold bloodâ
- Thread starter james_bond_3rd
- Start date
You have never criticized bush and his administration for jumping to conclusions on iraq which cost us thousands of deaths and hundrends of billions of dollars, yet you're attacking Murtha for saying what he knows and what's all over the news anyway. I am not jumping to conclusions about you, it's quite obvious where your priorities and preferences are.Quote from hapaboy:
Why the jumping to conclusions, dddooo?
The blame goes to Bush and Rumsfeld for the massacre that is being brought to light.
Leadership is always responsible.
None of us understand the stress of the soldiers, and while there is no excuse for their behavior, the situation they have been put in leads to these events.
We have soldiers, who like in Vietnam, don't know who may be wanting to kill them. Like the villagers and VC in Vietnam, the Iraq people may be friend or foe. They don't know who might be a suicide bomber trying to kill them, with a bomb strapped to a child.
This kind of stress, and survival instinct leads to a very emotional situation, where pent up emotions can easily spill out in improper ways.
The leadership of this war, has had failure after failure at trying to build peace in Iraq. Solider are often serving their 3rd and 4th tour of duty by now, the military is understaffed, we have had to rely on National Guardsmen to fight a foreign war, and they are dealing with locals who are untrained. Those who are trained, often then take that training and fight with the insurgency against American soldiers.
There was never an exit plan, these clowns in our administration are making it up as they go along. The new minister of Iraq came out recently and supported Iran's desire to have nuclear energy. That is our ally speaking? That is the country we are trying to shape in our image?
This is a mess, and Murtha is doing the right thing by bringing the reality to light.
We need to get out soldiers out of harms way as soon as possible, and let the Iraqi people sort this out.
Leadership is always responsible.
None of us understand the stress of the soldiers, and while there is no excuse for their behavior, the situation they have been put in leads to these events.
We have soldiers, who like in Vietnam, don't know who may be wanting to kill them. Like the villagers and VC in Vietnam, the Iraq people may be friend or foe. They don't know who might be a suicide bomber trying to kill them, with a bomb strapped to a child.
This kind of stress, and survival instinct leads to a very emotional situation, where pent up emotions can easily spill out in improper ways.
The leadership of this war, has had failure after failure at trying to build peace in Iraq. Solider are often serving their 3rd and 4th tour of duty by now, the military is understaffed, we have had to rely on National Guardsmen to fight a foreign war, and they are dealing with locals who are untrained. Those who are trained, often then take that training and fight with the insurgency against American soldiers.
There was never an exit plan, these clowns in our administration are making it up as they go along. The new minister of Iraq came out recently and supported Iran's desire to have nuclear energy. That is our ally speaking? That is the country we are trying to shape in our image?
This is a mess, and Murtha is doing the right thing by bringing the reality to light.
We need to get out soldiers out of harms way as soon as possible, and let the Iraqi people sort this out.
Quote from dddooo:
You have never criticized bush and his administration for jumping to conclusions on iraq which cost us thousands of deaths and hundrends of billions of dollars, yet you're attacking Murtha for saying what he knows and what's all over the news anyway. I am not jumping to conclusions about you, it's quite obvious where your priorities and preferences are.
StreamlineTrade
Guest
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:
The blame goes to Bush and Rumsfeld for the massacre that is being brought to light.
Leadership is always responsible.
None of us understand the stress of the soldiers, and while there is no excuse for their behavior, the situation they have been put in leads to these events.
We have soldiers, who like in Vietnam, don't know who may be wanting to kill them. Like the villagers and VC in Vietnam, the Iraq people may be friend or foe. They don't know who might be a suicide bomber trying to kill them, with a bomb strapped to a child.
This kind of stress, and survival instinct leads to a very emotional situation, where pent up emotions can easily spill out in improper ways.
The leadership of this war, has had failure after failure at trying to build peace in Iraq. Solider are often serving their 3rd and 4th tour of duty by now, the military is understaffed, we have had to rely on National Guardsmen to fight a foreign war, and they are dealing with locals who are untrained. Those who are trained, often then take that training and fight with the insurgency against American soldiers.
There was never an exit plan, these clowns in our administration are making it up as they go along. The new minister of Iraq came out recently and supported Iran's desire to have nuclear energy. That is our ally speaking? That is the country we are trying to shape in our image?
This is a mess, and Murtha is doing the right thing by bringing the reality to light.
We need to get out soldiers out of harms way as soon as possible, and let the Iraqi people sort this out.
An intelligent and objective post.
Something I find interesting in the Iraq situation is the past of the new government that has been elected in Iraq. The Dawa party were infact the very same people who tried to assassinate Saddam Hussain some years back - leading to Saddams retaliation that he is now rightly standing trial for.
The Dawa party are by our definitions terrorists, especially when we look at history and their tactics thus employed. Are they no different from the people of Palestine who we love to condemn? Also, the war on terror has been proven to use the very same tactics that Saddam used against Dawa party supporters in Gitmo.
So why is Saddam on trial? He was only defending his interests against terrorists, and he used the exact same methods against them (namely torture) as we, the Americans are responsible for against our enemy - the terrorists.
Is our president any better than Saddam? We must admit, there are some striking similarities in behavior and attitude.
Yes, it is obvious that you jump to conclusions. I was in favor of the invasion, but I have been critical of the way Bush has handled it.Quote from dddooo:
You have never criticized bush and his administration for jumping to conclusions on iraq which cost us thousands of deaths and hundrends of billions of dollars, yet you're attacking Murtha for saying what he knows and what's all over the news anyway. I am not jumping to conclusions about you, it's quite obvious where your priorities and preferences are.
More troops, for starters.
Unfortunately, you like to assume that anyone who was in favor of the invasion has no criticisms of the way it was handled.
I grow weary of your assumptions. Whereas before you used to make decent points, now you're all about knee-jerk reactions. I'm very tempted to put you on Ignore.
Relativistic nonsense.Quote from StreamlineTrade:
Is our president any better than Saddam? We must admit, there are some striking similarities in behavior and attitude.
When Bush starts picking up critics off the street and feeds them feet-first into woodcutters, the Republican party starts receving 100% of the popular vote, his family members go around raping and torturing at will, and he silences all dissent (media, academia, etc.), then you can start asking if Bush is any better than Saddam.
tl trader, was MY LAI a spin. These men broke the geneva convention. These men committed cold blooded murder of children. For god sakes children. These men basically took machine guns and shot these children directly in the head. These men are murderers. Spin all you want TL, this is cold blooded murder. If your saying americans marines dont have to respect the geneva convention, then I want you to support freeing all of the nazis who committed war crimes. B/c your saying they had the right in war to commit those crimes.
Quote from TL Trader:
Good post AAA, this happens to be my "spin" too.
hapaboy, you knew this type of event would eventually happen. What do you expect of boys barely out of highschool. Force into a situation where they cant see there enemey. where there enemey looks like the people they are trying to protect. And after 3 years and with some of these troops taking multiple tours of duty, this was bound to happen. I wish the american public would learn from history. this is basically My Lai II. And I hope these marines are sentenced to death or life in prison. These soldiers killed freaking children for god sakes. Can you tell me, you can let baby killers go free.
QUOTE]Quote from hapaboy:
Yes, it is obvious that you jump to conclusions. I was in favor of the invasion, but I have been critical of the way Bush has handled it.
More troops, for starters.
Unfortunately, you like to assume that anyone who was in favor of the invasion has no criticisms of the way it was handled.
I grow weary of your assumptions. Whereas before you used to make decent points, now you're all about knee-jerk reactions. I'm very tempted to put you on Ignore. [/QUOTE]
QUOTE]Quote from hapaboy:
Yes, it is obvious that you jump to conclusions. I was in favor of the invasion, but I have been critical of the way Bush has handled it.
More troops, for starters.
Unfortunately, you like to assume that anyone who was in favor of the invasion has no criticisms of the way it was handled.
I grow weary of your assumptions. Whereas before you used to make decent points, now you're all about knee-jerk reactions. I'm very tempted to put you on Ignore. [/QUOTE]