making one point a day?

[PitchBlack]

Quote from jem:

Over the years a a lot of talk about one or two points a day have been made.

But the guys who really seem to trade systematically, Say that nobody makes one point a day (per contract) trading the es. I could see discretionary traders doing it.

I doubt anyone with real systems averages one point a contract per day.

That means your averaging a very very large percent of the atr and given that the bid ask spread is wide relative to the atr and the size is very thick, I would say if you really average one point a day with your systems. You had best find away to exploit that system fully right now because it will be very short lived.

Making on average 1 point a day is being done by many traders I think. I’m surprised that a trader (you mention that you are a trader) makes such a statement.
I make on average more than 2 points a day.
If you cannot take more than 1 point out of moves that go beyond 5 points you should revise your system.

 

[shortswing]

Quote from Grob109:

This is an engineeering term for what you are doing , in my opinion won't work and you are following a path that, currently, is not going to be productive in any way.

It is best to be analylitical about going about finding out how to do things.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

The way to go about getting to be very profitable and successful is very clear to a lot of people and they complete getting there, sometimes, without any hitches nor delays. It is not a case of intelligence or having to be "different" in any way. It is more a case of being able to stay on a direct path as a consequence of rational reasoning processes.

VARIOUS SELF-IMPORTANT SOUNDING INANITIES, BS

Obviously, there is a tree of pathways that lead to a variety of more or less successful ways to make money. actually the tree is best viewed by looking down upon it and seeing a radial picture of successes occurring at all the ends of the branches.

Not being able to go to an end of some branch is the usual problem most people face. They simply become mired down by coming to the end of the paths that do not make it very far from the unknown interior of the tree. The objective is to go exhaustively through vhallenges successfully and not, on the other hand get stuck in the tree at an impassable part of the interior of the tree.

BIG WORDS, GRAND METAPHORS, ALLUSIONS TO TECHNICAL LANGUAGE

This is simply because your equipment (brain) cannot do erasing. you have a lot of stuff accumulated that is difficult to move aside to allow you to resume an effort down a path.

Look at another thread where several people are comforting each other and building upon past failure. It has to do with going from equities to commodities. Currently there are many many threads runnning on an assortment of shoddy reasoning and past failures. As people form little conclaves of conformity in irrationally developed settings, they make more and more mutually concrete barriers to being able to caste aside (move out of the way of a potential path) the debris they have piled up in their conclave.

SELF IMPORTANT GIBBERISH, BS, ENDLESS WINDBAG OF NONSENSE

They by continuing to be persistent will finally get to what is called a repillean state of activity that finally will allow them to "flee" to other life pursuits.

You need to call upon your rationally based resourses and stop stepping in cowpies for a while until you discover a way to push aside some things you now feel are important and functional (which they are not).


DIME STORE PSYCHOBABLE MASQUERADING AS INSIGHT


Build an invinceible GPS machine that always lets you know where you are at any time and with that you can really deeply survey your options.

Now you are sitting in a briar patch. Loose it.

Did anyone else feel an enormous blast of hot air just a little while ago?

 

[FredBloggs]

Quote from shortswing:

Did anyone else feel an enormous blast of hot air just a little while ago?

i think grob is an et prophet. he predicted your response/coming a while back.

 

[jem]

Quote from spike500:

Making on average 1 point a day is being done by many traders I think. I’m surprised that a trader (you mention that you are a trader) makes such a statement.
I make on average more than 2 points a day.
If you cannot take more than 1 point out of moves that go beyond 5 points you should revise your system.

I do not trade systematically. I decided to chuck anything a computer could do and started trading profitably in the spring again. I traded for a living for about 5 years. Went stale for about two. And traded well in the spring hope to trade well starting in september again. Right now I am just monitoring some longer term investments.

The one point a day deal is what guys who have put on a lot of trades with systems say. If you are letting a computer trade and are making two points a day on the es and can prove it. There are dozens of guys here who could get you as much private money as you wanted to trade.

2 points a day profit on one contract with a computer would be super hero status according to traders on this site and friends of mine who ran hedge funds.

Think about it you could easily trade 500 contracts at time. That would be 50,000 dollars a day and you would be trading others money. Let me be your agent. (I am a licensed attorney I will get everthing drawn up correctly. You will get 2 percent managment fee, a kick back on commissions and 20-50% of profits depending on how greedy you want to be.)

I am not saying you do not do it. What I am saying is. You could be retired by the end of the year.

 

[protrader-2K5]

grob,

I for one appreciate the insight.

I also believe that as in life, we are all at different levels of emotional development.

ie, if you are homeless, all you want is food and shelter... if you are a billionaire, you may find money pointless, and need some other meaning for your life.

I think trading is very much like that. When you start... you want to capture EVERYTHING. As you develop, you realize the power of leverage, compounding, and in this case, 1 measely point.

Now what my concern is, in the trading universe, where am I? At this stage in the game, I do over 40% a year with no compounding, or reinvestment. Have done it for about 7 years.

Spike on the other hand knocks out triple digits, either yearly or monthly. That is amazing, but believe it or not, I for one am not that motivated to do it.

Yet at this jucture you state to take a broader look... do you me warren buffet broader? or just look for ebbs and flows and take what comes on a bigger time chart?

I would like the hear from others regarding this... Where are you? Are you at 100% or at 50% or 5% of where you would be CONTENT?

 

[protrader-2K5]

Jem,

how long would you have to prove it?

Kind of a crappy question but are you talking over the last 2 years, 5 years, months?

also, 1 point is a large percent of the ATR, but are you not discounting the fact that the market rises and falls far many points in a typical day?

 

[MacroEvent]

grob109----------- i forgot to answer an earlier question by you----yes this example was from one account only that i use for my living expenses trading income. i trade a very consistent method that i use a good size of position volume per trade with. i generate enough income to pay all my basic monthly living expenses and enough for all the movies/dining/wasteful type spending.

my other trading is in an accumulation phase---------- i try to let it grow unencumbered without any monthly withdrawals. one system is in a set of accounts with a 6 month trial that i do not want to make withdrawals from that show on the brokerage statement---------i want the statements clean to only show the trading results.

 

[jem]

As far as the time frame I think you would have to show you have handled up markets down markets, range markets and trend days. I think it would depend on how many trades you took as much as how many months.

Yeah I understand the travel range or whatever you want to call it. But that travel range in the es means nothing to me but a chance to get shaken out.

By the way I used to be a very short term trader so I used to make a living on what others considered noise. But frankly I have trouble determining a move that should follow through from a move that should reverse in the es.

 

[Prevail]

Quote from spike500:

Making on average 1 point a day is being done by many traders I think. I’m surprised that a trader (you mention that you are a trader) makes such a statement.
I make on average more than 2 points a day.
If you cannot take more than 1 point out of moves that go beyond 5 points you should revise your system.

This does not sound realistic, what is your trading style?

 

[Atlantic]

Quote from Grob109:



I like the trader's transition in skill utilization as measured by the % of the time that he is in the market.
...
Being able to be in the market seems to be a good measure of effectiveness and of efficiency as well.

the way you put it one could think that money can be made just by being in the market.

Quote from Grob109:



How many points does the ES travel in a day or in a week, speaking vectorially? What would the "noise" level of price movement be construed as? What units could be used to describe the price vector value? What if a person just wanted to extract capital out of the noise bandwith level? There is a lot of low energy money making sitting right there too.

the conversation in the prior posts is focused on almost a trivial amount of money compared to what is available. Must be hard for most people to see that it is there, even. That post on 1 point range day was very very bad sign of the limitations for understanding the market, apparently.

i consider myself open-minded - but somehow you come around like some rookie trader studying intraday charts afterwards and counting all the points that "could have been made" - just because the market went "from here to there". so what you keep trying to explain here - is it all just theory - or ist it the way YOU are trading the futures day by day? and if it is not theory but reality - please deliver some facts.

and please do not consider this as some sort of challenge - i just want to learn. thank you.