Making JH' SCT and all his material alive

Sprout said:
At an EE both a BM and rtl (if possible) are drawn pronto. Sometimes a rtl cannot be drawn from this point geometrically. This is distinct from when it can be drawn geometrically. We can call one a true rtl.
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From this I DD :

- there are moments when geometry prevents to draw rtl from the BM established by the EE.

no rtl from OP.png


- there are moments when geometry allows to draw rtl from the established BM by the EE.

OP and rtl do sync.png




Back in time, I had a doubt about what if there is a rtl congruent with next EE creating BM beginning before this EE comes ? Like :

rtl already there when EE.png


My recent readings from JH make me think that is not correct. One would be, in this scenario, to wait for next bar before drawing the dark rtl that, geometrically here, begins before the OP given by the BM given by the EE.





Your "What if you take the operating point of only drawing true rtl’s?" is stimulating my DDs. Thank you for that.

What I understand is that there are non true and true, rtl's.


At an EE both a BM and rtl (if possible) are drawn pronto. The presence of "if possible" shows that it's also possible not to have the possibility. Sometimes a rtl cannot be drawn from this point geometrically. Confirmed. This is distinct from when it can be drawn geometrically. We can call one a true rtl. At first, I DDd the true rtl is when it can be drawn geometrically, and non-true rtl is when it's not possible to do it geometrically.
Now, after deeper reflexion, I'm not that sure. I would rather say the true rtl is the one beginning from the OP. But not all OPs give a rtl at this point.

Upto now you have been including non-true rtl’s as a way to define the fastest fractal tapes. This is surely an answer. You state, unless I don't get you, that I have been building FFF using non-true rtl's. What if you take the operating point of only drawing true rtl’s?
Aha : I was not understanding what an operating point was. I thought the OP was the place where BM/EE is put. I understand it's, in fact, a way to do something.

Therefore :

Back to the true rtl. You say : At an EE both a BM and rtl (if possible) are drawn pronto. Sometimes a rtl cannot be drawn from this point geometrically. This is distinct from when it can be drawn geometrically. We can call one a true rtl.

So now, my DD tells me the one we can call the true rtl is the one that can be done geometrically, which was what I thought at first sight.

Then, finally, I would see the following as true :

IMG_20190616_213618.jpg


AND

if it's true that it's true, it will change a lot of things. Let's see that
 
I've yet to see a true RTL established on same bar as BM. A possible OP is starting volume sequence on previous bar when geometry allows. Though it is not what the texts prescribe, it may somewhat workaround other annotation mistakes, though costing credibility and precision.

I understand true RTL to adhere to the texts, T1 prior or on intersection, which means otherwise one would wait for BM, REV. This is to be on the correct side of the market at all times, meaning the market won't always provide signals in the form of early bird, making wash trades the appropriate tool at those bars. Only way to really establish one's processing on this would be MADA / testing and see what works for oneself.
 
WchPl said:
So now, my DD tells me the one we can call the true rtl is the one that can be done geometrically, which was what I thought at first sight.
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In other words, the first appearing, the first that can be drawn in congruence with the sent of the trend.

Simples said:
I've yet to see a true RTL established on same bar as BM
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I'd say beginning rather than established on the bar with BM, to be more precise. On the last pic I posted, it does surge this way.
 
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The method is composed of three interlocking fractals. The slowest fractal nesting the TF and the TF nesting the FF. RTL's refer to trendlines on the TF, rtl's refer to trendlines on the Fastest Fractal. Sometimes both of these have the same point of origin as the EE, sometimes not.

At an EE a BM and rtl (when possible) are drawn. This is an iterative refinement to how you have been drawing them. How you have been drawing them is to construct tapes and the distinctions around that. Those distinctions are easily transferred to the 30m. The 30m timescale is used in conjunction with the 5m. However with that said, you are also quite attached to price priority in defining your trends vs volume priority. One has the independent variable and the dependent variable in the proper OOE, the other does not.

In post 1014, have the first bar be your c-turn since it is the beginning of your trend window. In RDBMS even though we can take the case that this is a c-turn, it is also possible that it is an a-turn with a move reversal and that the c-turn was at the beginning of the trend overlap and not at the BO of the RTL that this first bar could be.

The important thing is to practice logging with a particular Operating Point in mind. Since this is a complete system that has defined every element of the market's system of operation; it yields consistent outputs based on the inputs that you feed into it. As one iteratively refines, and explores different inputs, the resultant outputs will be more congruent to all other aspects that one has built into their spectrum of differentiation or not. Both conditions are causes for appreciation. One is an achievement and further reinforcement of all the interrelated aspects and the other is a illumination of a gap in their spectrum of differentiation that one's subconscious will work to solve.

This further illustrates what Jack described as the mental operators we use to perceive - space, shape and change of shape. Although people might have different opinions on this, it's the mental agility, logical thinking and flexibility of bias that building the mind with this method supports. This is much much better to have when one is trading live then when one has been given answers and hasn't built the logical reasoning of their minds in any substantial manner.

@WchPl, you clearly have progressed along this arc and by going back to the basic granularity of market data to further inform your logical reasoning capacity. By getting your answers from the market, with no intermediary, you with you are growing in a very direct manner. This is a capacity that you have built for yourself and was not given to you. Congrats!
 
Regarding post #1011, I want to say... By Joe, I think you've got it!!

I also want to point out how the width (and therefore the money potential) of the TAPE has been affected. And how IV and DV (and container points 1,2,3) take on a slightly different level of meaning using the true rtl... Recognition of sub-tapes via volume (and RDBMS) becomes close to obvious too.

Really Good Work!
 
Keeping on refining the same chart, there's something interesting for me here :


issue then no.png


Bar 1 will be 11:00, the bar initiating the long trend with BM long. It's about VTP and volume elements. So in the following debrief, I'll focus on this exclusively.

Bar 1 : BO,T1 and BMrev, P1ass
Bar 2 : T1
Bar 3 : wait
Bar 4 : wait (Lat3)
Bar 5 : Lat 4 retro onward, no backward measurement son not in the shadow of Lat1. in the vein of the last DDs, that volume bar is to be compared to last measured/measurable bar which was T1. It's above, so P2 AND it's under P1ass.
Bar 6 : Above prior P2 AND P1. Lastly, it has been stated that to do rev chron and find a new P1, we need a second P2 above P1. I wondered what that meant : a second P2 above P1, with the first P2 being also above P1 ? If this was true, Ag would not exist. Why so ? Cause if we have a first P2 above P1, it's a P2, and then if after that we have another P1, we have Ag HVBO. SO, the requirement to do rev chron and find after P2 another P1, the first P2 can't have been above P1. It needs to be below.
It's the case here : we have the first P2 below P1. What comes next ?
Next, so it is bar 6, we have a second P2 above P1. So I DD : the test for repeat fails and we do rev chron and we have P1 on bar 6.
Bar 7 : OB, tricky. Volume is below prior value, so T1/P2. Troughs do not yield turns, except for T2P/T2F. A-band passes.
Bar 7 : P2 repeats
Bar 8 : BO,T1 of the TRUE rtl. BM short, FS EE.

Compared to when using non-true rtl's, that long trend was.. really long !!


When I first started that post, I was stuck. By writing it, I solved my problem. What you see here is not the original post I was gonna post. I'm not saying I'm all right here, but at least, I don't see any problem anymore.
 
WchPl said:
Bar 7 : OB, tricky. Volume is below prior value, so T1/P2. Troughs do not yield turns, except for T2P/T2F. A-band passes.
Bar 7 : P2 repeats
Bar 8 : BO,T1 of the TRUE rtl. BM short, FS EE.
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Correction :

bar 8 : T1/P2
bar 9 : P2 repeat
bar 10 : BO,T1 of TRUE rtl (FF)

Then, what comes next ? :

refinement until bar 30.png



bar 11 : interesting. Here's how I see it : At bar 10's H we have a short BM for BO,T1. at EOB number 11, we have OB. I see several things at the same time :
- volume is below prior measured bar : so T1. But we have an OB so we have T1/P2.
- also, when the OB locks in, we have a short rtl that can be drawn, through the OB.
- also, close is outside of the rtl AND we've had a T1.

So I'd say here, in the order : T1/P2, so we have T1, so gate is open for BO,T1, then we have a rtl established, then close is outside, therefore BO,T1 EE and P1 is assigned, with long BM at L. The short trend only lasted 1 bar.


bar 12 : T1, true rtl is established AND I see a new long TF has born.
bar 13 : P2
bar 14 : we've had T1, close is outside true rtl, BO,T1 w/ P1ass.
bar 15 : P1 repeats, rtl is established.
bar 16 : T1 between two P1's in value, we have PP3. BM long, P1 will be assigned on next bar. Also, L of this bar is below prior BM long, so either the long trend that is coming will have a bar exceeding bar 13's H and we'll fan the long black TF, or it will not and we'll have an EE beginning a short trend which will create a new short TF and we'll have a short TF appearing.

I notice here I'm not sure a 100% that I'm clear with the fractals. The litterature states to have a FF we need three FFFs, then we need three FFs to have a TF and we need three TFs to have one SF. I feel now I was too much oriented on price as for fractals. If I consider volume first, I can see from bar 1 of the chart so 9:30 to bar 9:50 we have only XR's, so no two contradictory tapes/extended tapes. However, I see it now as a FF. Another example, from 10:45 to 10:55 I also see a FF AND here there are two contradictory tapes.
In any case I see because volume says in both examples "there's a trend", a FF, although the two FFFs are not necessary there, geometrically speaking on price.
Therefore, I see from 9:30 to BO on 11:20 bar, a short TF made of 5 succesive trends alternating. And from 11:00 to 12:15 (for now) I see a long TF.
All this is maybe wrong, I need a refinement and deeper comprehension to get it.

bar 17 : P1ass, rtl is established.
bar 18 : P1 repeats, H of bar exceeds bar 13's H so we fan the long TF.
bar 19 : P1 repeats. We have P1.0 - P1.1 > P1.1 - P1.2. So the first requirement for PP1 is there. BUT we have an XR, so contradictory rtl so we can't see any acceleration on price. So, Not PP1. Ac scene is set. Long rtl is fanned to include bar 19. It creates a vey long rtl, I expand it as long as I can on the chart. Let's see the EE that come along. All this leads also to fan the long TF.

bar 20 : wait
bar 21 : tricky. Which bar do I compare this one to ? last P1 ? leftmost P1 ? two prior P1's ?
If considering the last two P1s, I have a PP3. If considering the leftmost P1 and the last one, I have T1. I also wonder if I'm to compare the current bar to the prior one. I mean, if the Not PP1 I have here was a very first P1, which volume bar would I compare bar 21's to ? The prior one in the orger of surge ? or the last measurable bar ?
This needs refinement and DDs too.
My OP for now will be in this precise case : I compare to the last measurable bar BUT being as it's a third P1 I'll compare bar 21's volume to the first P1's. So T1. BO,T1 is permitted.


bar 22 : degap gives Wait.
bar 23 : cool. The above talked scenario happens. I maintain my OP and will measure curren tvolume to last measured one. We have P2. A-band pass. The required conditions for Ac are filling more and more.
NB : maybe i'm out with the way I put the A-band. I don't know here which P1 to choose to make it begin. As my OP is to use first P1 for the EE that would come, I use it too for the beginning of the A-band. It's strange cause in function of what could come along, we could have a T1 above the P1 and this would be weird.


bar 24 : T2P. B-band pass. A-band EE are killed. B-band EE are possible. We have P2 less than P1, so only Bc can appear.
bar 25 : StB with UL. Not sure here, but I'd say test for repeat fails cause volume exceeds P2. So at first sight, I'd say rev chron and we have P2. But this P2 is the second one and it's above the first P1 which is the one I use for everything because of my OP of this area. So I'd say new P1 here.
bar 26 : P1 repeats
bar 27 : T1. Gate for BO,T1 is there
bar 28 : upto yesterday, I'd have aseen a BO,T1. But with the new OP I have, which is using true rtl, I see we're far away from this rtl. So, just T1 repeat.
bar 29 : P2, A-band pass
bar 30 : T2P; B-band pass, A-band EE are killed.




To be continued..
 
WchPl said:
Keeping on refining the same chart, there's something interesting for me here :


View attachment 204380

Bar 1 will be 11:00, the bar initiating the long trend with BM long. It's about VTP and volume elements. So in the following debrief, I'll focus on this exclusively.

Bar 1 : BO,T1 and BMrev, P1ass
Bar 2 : T1
Bar 3 : wait
Bar 4 : wait (Lat3)
Bar 5 : Lat 4 retro onward, no backward measurement son not in the shadow of Lat1. in the vein of the last DDs, that volume bar is to be compared to last measured/measurable bar which was T1. It's above, so P2 AND it's under P1ass.
Bar 6 : Above prior P2 AND P1. Lastly, it has been stated that to do rev chron and find a new P1, we need a second P2 above P1. I wondered what that meant : a second P2 above P1, with the first P2 being also above P1 ? If this was true, Ag would not exist. Why so ? Cause if we have a first P2 above P1, it's a P2, and then if after that we have another P1, we have Ag HVBO. SO, the requirement to do rev chron and find after P2 another P1, the first P2 can't have been above P1. It needs to be below.
It's the case here : we have the first P2 below P1. What comes next ?
Next, so it is bar 6, we have a second P2 above P1. So I DD : the test for repeat fails and we do rev chron and we have P1 on bar 6.
Bar 7 : OB, tricky. Volume is below prior value, so T1/P2. Troughs do not yield turns, except for T2P/T2F. A-band passes.
Bar 7 : P2 repeats
Bar 8 : BO,T1 of the TRUE rtl. BM short, FS EE.

Compared to when using non-true rtl's, that long trend was.. really long !!


When I first started that post, I was stuck. By writing it, I solved my problem. What you see here is not the original post I was gonna post. I'm not saying I'm all right here, but at least, I don't see any problem anymore.
More...


Three things:
Bar6 fits the definition of Aa EE.

If it had not and the trend progressed to the next bar,
look at your volume element ranges - T1 is killed on bar7.

This cascades assignments which makes Bar8 as an EE of the PP!'s subset.
 
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