Made a lot of progress, but feel like there's so much more to go...

[trader99]

Today, I fell into the futures trading trap again. Net negative. My stock options trade was nicely positive. I think the reason why my stock and stock options trades are better is because I have somewhat of an edge and it doesn't suffer from as much decision fatigue as futures trading.

In futures intraday trading, you are long then all of sudden it changes directions then you try to short then you get whipsawed. All sorts of movements happen all in a short period of time.

Whereas in stocks and stock options trading, I am more selective and pick a stock that is in play. Those usually trend better.

I'm sticking with that strategy going forward. Of course, on super trendy days then the leverage of futures can be nice. But even then, I'm not really comfortable trading a whole bunch of contracts. The movements are so violent... So then I'm forced to scalp(not micro-scalp but scalp nevertheless), which to me is very tiring. Decision fatigue. It doesn't fit my personality as HARD as I tried. I'm beating against that wall for too many years. I think it's more relaxing to catch a good trend and ride it.

Now I gotta learn to ride that trend as long as it takes it.

wish me luck!

 

[ironchef]

Today, I fell into the futures trading trap again. Net negative. My stock options trade was nicely positive. I think the reason why my stock and stock options trades are better is because I have somewhat of an edge and it doesn't suffer from as much decision fatigue as futures trading.

In futures intraday trading, you are long then all of sudden it changes directions then you try to short then you get whipsawed. All sorts of movements happen all in a short period of time.

Whereas in stocks and stock options trading, I am more selective and pick a stock that is in play. Those usually trend better.

I'm sticking with that strategy going forward. Of course, on super trendy days then the leverage of futures can be nice. But even then, I'm not really comfortable trading a whole bunch of contracts. The movements are so violent... So then I'm forced to scalp(not micro-scalp but scalp nevertheless), which to me is very tiring. Decision fatigue. It doesn't fit my personality as HARD as I tried. I'm beating against that wall for too many years. I think it's more relaxing to catch a good trend and ride it.

Now I gotta learn to ride that trend as long as it takes it.

wish me luck!

You don't need luck.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

 

[trader99]

You don't need luck.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Yep. This morning I did one of my best setup for a stock. Ka-ching. If I just execute only those types of trades then I should be fine. It's like an ATM.

Of course, I did one NQ trade net negative. Fortunately the loss is less than the stock trades. Like clockwork.

 

[sillyw10]

if you are losing with index futures trades..then..you need to change what you are doing..until you start winning

forget all the hype and talk about BIG MONEY..load of rubbish..if you can't make small money with index futures then one sure thing is you will never be able to make BIG MONEY

practice..practice..practice..only fools throw away their hard earned money by trying something that they have not proved to themselves they are able to do..remember..new cannon fodder must be kept coming at all costs..and the micro e-minis are just another step towards that goal

 

[Giddiyup]

Sorry mispost. Was reading this thread. Good luck. Very interesting.

 

[trader99]

if you are losing with index futures trades..then..you need to change what you are doing..until you start winning

forget all the hype and talk about BIG MONEY..load of rubbish..if you can't make small money with index futures then one sure thing is you will never be able to make BIG MONEY

practice..practice..practice..only fools throw away their hard earned money by trying something that they have not proved to themselves they are able to do..remember..new cannon fodder must be kept coming at all costs..and the micro e-minis are just another step towards that goal

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Thanks for the advice. I think I will just give up on index futures period. I have NEVER had any success with futures trading. Even minor ones. I would made a few hundred bucks then lose it on the next trade. Just not good. No matter how many trades I practice, How much time I spent on simtrading etc. The best futures trading was buying the dip of NKD futures during Brexit. Made a whole lot but never traded it again.

Stocks, on the other hand, i can easily make money. I will just stick with that. I'm thinking of stop trading futures PERIOD! Like none. Maybe NG which I have been doing OK. And nothing else.

Even GC which I had a good overnight trade, I lost money yesterday buying the breakout. Then of course today it ran up huge I missed because I was afraid if I buy the breakout it will pullback hard(which it did multiple times). So what's a good entry point? Only obvious with hindsight.

As painful as it is to admit, I just plain SUCK at futures trading. No matter how you slice it.

Why work so hard with little to even negative rewards?

Go with what comes easy and natural to me.

how do you guys who are successful index futures trader do it? When I say successful I mean consistently profitable. Doesn't have to be thousands per day but that would be nice. To me that's the minimum bar for success. Because if you can consistently do hundreds then it's just a matter of time and scaling to go to thousands. I can't even do hundreds a day with index futures. More like negative hundreds. lol

 

[Overnight]

...
how do you guys who are successful index futures trader do it? When I say successful I mean consistently profitable. To me that's the minimum bar for success...

STOP RIGHT THERE!


Hell no, man. Successful index futures trading is NOT the minimum bar for success. The minimum bar for success is you taking home green every day, into your bank account, which you seem to be able to do with stocks and stock options.

THAT is your measurement for success. What YOU take home.

Index futures are a tease, man. Like it is doing to me now. It teased me to up my profit target from 22ish points to 25, based on it's movement a few moments ago. And I will set that target, because it feels good at the moment. It's just a feel about everything that happened during the day today. That takes no skill. What you do is calculated. THAT takes skill.

Do what you know, and what makes you the green, and you will be more successful than most traders out there.

 

[trader99]

STOP RIGHT THERE!


Hell no, man. Successful index futures trading is NOT the minimum bar for success. The minimum bar for success is you taking home green every day, into your bank account, which you seem to be able to do with stocks and stock options.

THAT is your measurement for success. What YOU take home.

Index futures are a tease, man. Like it is doing to me now. It teased me to up my profit target from 22ish points to 25, based on it's movement a few moments ago. And I will set that target, because it feels good at the moment. It's just a feel about everything that happened during the day today. That takes no skill. What you do is calculated. THAT takes skill.

Do what you know, and what makes you the green, and you will be more successful than most traders out there.

Thanks for the advice. But I think you misread my sentence or I misphrased it. What I meant when I said minimum bar of success is if one is consistently making hundreds a day. Then it's just a matter of time and scaling to go to thousands per day,which is my goal else it's a waste of time and high opportunity cost at least for me.

Starting tomorrow I will take your advice and my own advice and recognition and FOCUS hard on stocks and stock options. The only thing that I'm able to be green consistently day in day out.

Trading futures have been so frustrating and painful. More like a torture chamber. The sad and ironic thing is that I recognize all these patterns and can make the right calls but I'm so scarred now in futures I'm afraid to put on another trade. I can't sit through the whiplashes and noises and fast actions.

Back in 2001-2002 when I first started daytrading(it was prop with no money deposit back in the days), stocks were hard for me too. But now stocks seem slow by comparison to futures. I feel like I'm in a relaxed massage session when I trade stocks vs trading futures.

I don't know if 5-10 years hence I can say the same about futures. But so far the evidence has been highly negative. I will stick with what works and comes easiest.

 

[Overnight]

Thanks for the advice. But I think you misread my sentence or I misphrased it. What I meant when I said minimum bar of success if consistently making hundreds a day. Then it's just a matter of time and scaling to go to thousands per day,which else it's a waste of time and high opportunity cost.

It is very hard to do it outright futures without one of those weird FOP hedges, or whatever they do.

For example, that trade I mentioned I was in? For the 20 point target? I was just looking at the ladder, decided to play with it, see what I could do with it. I got out in the froth for 12ish points. It didn't look good when it went into "shit mode" at about 1900 Eastern Time. But sure enough, a min after my exit, the thing shot another 8 points or so.

With that said, you should stick to those stocks and option you have success with. Trade within your means. Index futures are a trap for the underfunded, because it all seems like a good idea, until the margin-call. If you have the means to do what you do in your stocks and options without over-extending yourself, and you make money with it, just stay with it. Please.

We need more success stories around here.

Like Destriero, the psycho options guy. The fack he does, I dunno'. But success is good!

P.S. Oh, sure, and now it reaches my old target. Fucking index futures. Mreh.

 

[sillyw10]

Thanks for the advice. I think I will just give up on index futures period. I have NEVER had any success with futures trading. Even minor ones. I would made a few hundred bucks then lose it on the next trade. Just not good. No matter how many trades I practice, How much time I spent on simtrading etc. The best futures trading was buying the dip of NKD futures during Brexit. Made a whole lot but never traded it again.

Stocks, on the other hand, i can easily make money. I will just stick with that. I'm thinking of stop trading futures PERIOD! Like none. Maybe NG which I have been doing OK. And nothing else.

Even GC which I had a good overnight trade, I lost money yesterday buying the breakout. Then of course today it ran up huge I missed because I was afraid if I buy the breakout it will pullback hard(which it did multiple times). So what's a good entry point? Only obvious with hindsight.

As painful as it is to admit, I just plain SUCK at futures trading. No matter how you slice it.

Why work so hard with little to even negative rewards?

Go with what comes easy and natural to me.

how do you guys who are successful index futures trader do it? When I say successful I mean consistently profitable. Doesn't have to be thousands per day but that would be nice. To me that's the minimum bar for success. Because if you can consistently do hundreds then it's just a matter of time and scaling to go to thousands. I can't even do hundreds a day with index futures. More like negative hundreds. lol

do you see that big wide bar around 13:00 on the chart I posted..i didn't trade that as I went to the kitchen just before it and had some noodles and cured ham ..when I got back I said shi*..if you are seriously trading ES then you must be serious..no room for error at all!!

see the little pink boxes on the last few bars in the chart I posted..i have set my chart in the post below to temp show what they are..they are called the POC..Point Of Control..the area where most of the volume has traded..with the continuous algo trading on ES these readings can change rapidly and can become meaningless during rapid volatility..like when that big wide rang bar hit when I was having my noodles..during low vol times they can be of some use..but as with all trading they should only be used with proper risk management and a sound trading approach

if you examine my entries and exits on the chart..you SHOULD be able to see what things I did wrong..and what things I did right..this is called LEARNING from your past experiences..and..we never stop learning..that is for sure!!

anyone who tries to trade the ES should remember that most of the auto trading is done by big banks..they are paying others to use OPM to speculate..they all get paid regardless of the outcomes..and paid very handsomely at that..as the saying goes..some things really never change..just different times and different tools..the clever few will always take easy money from the dumb public

to be not dumb one must be prepared to think..work hard at learning and testing in relation to the current conditions..and only risk the hard earned money when proven to oneself that it is possible to make money trading (no matter what you trade)..which it is possible..but it is not easy money like the clever few would have you believe..that is for sure!!