Liffe - The True Power Of The Algos

[electricshock]

Quote from LincolnArmy:

Keep posting beaker -I appreciate the info.

Your childish adversaries reveal themselves every time they post -they really don't get it.

Wouldn't this be a great opportunity for another exchange to steal the LIFFE contracts. Same specs, better regulation and barring RSJ -who wouldn't swap exchanges for the opportunity to trade such a market???

As for LIFFE -anyone for a class action suit?

Count me in.

If anyone thinks that one company running this % of the volume is in any way healthy they must be crazy or have no clue whatsoever about this business.

I also agree that this would be a good time for a rival to launch current LIFFE products,in fact screw the rest of them,just get EUREX to acquire the Euribor,let them see how long they last with the shitty vol the rest of their shitty contracts produce

I still say charge these fuckers for number of lots inputed not messages.Imagine how much vol they actually input to execute 4m lots per month in short sterling,10p a lot would cripple them.

The most frightening aspect for me here is that it appears LIFFE would happily let this obscene behaviour continue if RSJ hadn't started to run their mouth,who knows they probably will do nothing,when the hell are the FSA/SEC going to deal with them?

Surely heads have got to roll over this,they just haven't got a clue over there.

Keep up the posts beaker,ignore the imbeciles

 

[risktaker]

Seems to me that sooner or later people will realize they're trading against fake garbage and just reduce their trading like hell. When that happens, the exchanges will have to impose some algo trading fee or tax/surcharge to stop this nonsense. I for one am reducing trading wherever I see an exchange allowing these fuckers to take over.

Just quit or take your business elsewhere!

If I want to trade against some stupid machine with the odds against me, I'll go to 'Vegas.

But the problem isn't really algos. It's the fact that these greedy exchanges allow this large manipulators to fuck up a 'market' just so they can make a profit. That should be illegal!

Hedge funds for example, should NOT be allowed to perform the function of market maker but they are. Then they end up manipulating a market and the exchanges love it. More profit!

 

[electricshock]

Quote from risktaker:

Seems to me that sooner or later people will realize they're trading against fake garbage and just reduce their trading like hell. When that happens, the exchanges will have to impose some algo trading fee or tax/surcharge to stop this nonsense.

I think that's happened already,the volumes today for example are pretty shit across the board.

Personally I think the exchanges will only impose a fine when they,the exchange could be found to be breaking the law by helping to facilitate unfair trading practices that A) bring the quality of the market into question and B) allowing a virtual monopoly to occur and turn a blind eye.

Which has been definitely happening at LIFFE over the last 5 years.

 

[risktaker]

And the politicians/regulators turn a blind eye, pretending all is OK because they're paid off one way or another.

I say again, there's nothing fancy about these BS algos. What they DO have is the capacity to manipulate the market thanks to the exchanges allowing thieves to operate as if they're sophisticated 'traders'. More like con-men in disguise.

Bucket shop ring a bell? Times never change I guess. Only now the con-artists are on the same side helping the exchanges as opposed to operating down the street or in the hotel lobby.

Quote from electricshock:

I think that's happened already,the volumes today for example are pretty shit across the board.

Personally I think the exchanges will only impose a fine when they,the exchange could be found to be breaking the law by helping to facilitate unfair trading practices that A) bring the quality of the market into question and B) allowing a virtual monopoly to occur and turn a blind eye.

Which has been definitely happening at LIFFE over the last 5 years.

 

[electricshock]

Quote from risktaker:

And the politicians/regulators turn a blind eye, pretending all is OK because they're paid off one way or another.

I say again, there's nothing fancy about these BS algos. What they DO have is the capacity to manipulate the market thanks to the exchanges allowing thieves to operate as if they're sophisticated 'traders'. More like con-men in disguise.

Bucket shop ring a bell? Times never change I guess. Only now the con-artists are on the same side helping the exchanges as opposed to operating down the street or in the hotel lobby.

All very true

 

[Martinghoul]

Guys, I am not a fan of these algo peeps, but just wondering about this 'holier than thou' talk...

If you were given an opportunity to make money (I assume they do) the way RSJ does, would you turn it down on moral grounds? Say if you were offered a job with them tomorrow?

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[risktaker]

I'd 'work' there, not for the salary but to reverse engineer their crap with the intent of later on getting rules to bar them or screw them at their own game. (I don't have the capital to compete against them though).

I guess that means I won't be hired anytime soon.

Quote from Martinghoul:

Guys, I am not a fan of these algo peeps, but just wondering about this 'holier than thou' talk...

If you were given an opportunity to make money (I assume they do) the way RSJ does, would you turn it down on moral grounds? Say if you were offered a job with them tomorrow?

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[electricshock]

Quote from Martinghoul:

Guys, I am not a fan of these algo peeps, but just wondering about this 'holier than thou' talk...

If you were given an opportunity to make money (I assume they do) the way RSJ does, would you turn it down on moral grounds? Say if you were offered a job with them tomorrow?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Why would I be offered a job there tomorrow,they don't employ traders only maths graduates/code breakers and number crunchers.

The whole point is that they make money not by trading but by dominating/manipulating/bullying and intimidation.

I'll parallel this,If someone burgled you tonight and gets away with it,is it OK for you to do the same tomorrow if it was an opportunity for you to profit?

Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[Johno]

Quote from electricshock:

Why would I be offered a job there tomorrow,they don't employ traders only maths graduates/code breakers and number crunchers.

The whole point is that they make money not by trading but by dominating/manipulating/bullying and intimidation.

I'll parallel this,If someone burgled you tonight and gets away with it,is it OK for you to do the same tomorrow if it was an opportunity for you to profit?

Two wrongs do not make a right.

So I can assume that you would have an equal dislike for a Blackjack card counter in a casino, because after all only the casino should have the right to milk the punters?
To be honest I find this logic unusual for a professional trader!

Best Regards

Johno

 

[electricshock]

Quote from Johno:

So I can assume that you would have an equal dislike for a Blackjack card counter in a casino, because after all only the casino should have the right to milk the punters?
To be honest I find this logic unusual for a professional trader!

Best Regards

Johno

I can assume that you are not actually a professional trader,if you were you would not have missed the point and the point of this thread in general.Your analogy franky doesn't make any sense in this context.

If you are a trader in whatever form your logic that it is in any way acceptable for one participant to be trading 40% of the market,trading with itself,totally controlling the market is nuts,trust me you won't find many friends in this thread.

The scary thing is that the folks at LIFFE were quite happy for this to continue whilst they come round the offices trying to promote their shitty contracts,pretending they're actually alright guys when really they know there's a giant algo crucifying human traders all day everyday.They have been made to look like complete idiots because their underhandedness has been exposed by the very people they are in league with.

Another serious issue is the funding of this firm.To be able to execute that amount of lots they must have insane limits/leverage.What would happen if there was a problem?Who clears this business?What sort of a market would we be left with if they imploded?

Given the precarious state of the financial markets currently could we take another disaster?