Quote from electricshock:
You are not making any sense,you are not in a position also to discuss the legalities of this,you don't know what the hell you're talking about,typical Australian really.
If any of you think that one player having this much influence is OK then you are truly crazy because your careers will be a lot shorter than you think.Good Luck
With all due respect, Guy, you're confusing logic with naivete...Quote from GuyFawkes:
"If they are operating, they are legal at the moment. "
I think that this statement says it all. This is the level of thought process that we are dealing with. Staggeringly naive to put it politely.
Could someone please explain the following case to me -I knew of a Eurex trader a few years back and he had a black box which broke the exchange rules (operated illegally) month after month. He was fined tens of thousands of Euros month after month and he just accepted this as a cost of trading.
He was operating illegally -how can that be?
I can't believe the general naivety in the responses to Beaker's post -it strikes me that they must come from people who haven't traded futures, and possibly haven't traded anything apart from baseball cards.
LIFFE, if it had a long term plan, would be looking to do it's best to level the playing field for all participants, alogos, locals, whatever you want to call yourselves. By pandering to it's biggest clients, which are currently algos, it has created a monster which it is now totally beholden to. It has given the algos cost and informational advantages which has made it possible for them to wipe out most of the other market participants.
In so doing they have drained liquidity from the markets and efficiency from their products pricing.
I don't touch European products because I am interested in trading, not playing "dodge the algo" all day everyday. I wouldn't be surprised if there is something similar going on at Eurex. Anyway, I will certainly enjoy watching LIFFE disappear down the shit hole -and to all LIFFE employees -best of luck finding a job.
Well, my goal in asking the question was to simply understand what motivates people to object so strenously to the presence of RSJ and the like. Specifically, I wanted to see if it's just the case of 'sour grapes' (they can do it better than me, so I will contrive to trumpet everywhere that what they do is illegal). Or if it's the case of a bunch of 'conscientious objectors' who sincerely think it's bad for the mkt in the longer term... I don't think this question is taking the thread in the wrong direction (if the thread did have one in the first place, that is), as I think it's important to understand what's behind the complaints. But that's fine, I have despaired of ever hearing an actual straightforward answer, so forget about it...Quote from GuyFawkes:
The only confusion Martinghoul is the angle from which you are coming.
I think that you are taking this thread off topic with your question, and even though it is probably a mistake, I will indulge you with an answer to your question.
Would I work for RSJ or make money the way they do?
I am lucky in that I have never been faced with a choice of breaking the law or my children going hungry. If I was faced with this then, probably like the vast majority of fathers, there is a good chance that I would be prepared to break the law in order to put food on the table.
& while you may not like my answer, I think that your first assumption
"1. Assume algo trading, as practiced by RSJ, is legal and compliant with current LIFFE rules."
is quite ridiculous. If you are not aware of the law breaking that goes on every day in this industry then you cannot have been around for long.
I don't understand what angle you are coming from. Do you trade futures? Have you ever traded thousands or tens of thousand rts a day? Have you been a percentage of the market and taken 6 or seven figures out of it yourself? I don't pretend to know everything about the markets and I don't get everything right but I do not understand you and I do need a reason to take you seriously.
Quote from Martinghoul:
Well, my goal in asking the question was to simply understand what motivates people to object so strenously to the presence of RSJ and the like. Specifically, I wanted to see if it's just the case of 'sour grapes' (they can do it better than me, so I will contrive to trumpet everywhere that what they do is illegal). Or if it's the case of a bunch of 'conscientious objectors' who sincerely think it's bad for the mkt in the longer term... I don't think this question is taking the thread in the wrong direction (if the thread did have one in the first place, that is), as I think it's important to understand what's behind the complaints. But that's fine, I have despaired of ever hearing an actual straightforward answer, so forget about it...
As to your other point, I am not referring to what happens in the industry generally. In the specific case of RSJ vs the locals, I am not aware of RSJ breaking any rules. If you have specific instances of them doing something unlawful, rather than vague speculation, pls do let the community and LIFFE know. Until that happens, under presumption of innocence, I will consider what they do legal/compliant until proven otherwise. If, on the other hand, you just don't like the mkt they're active in, then vote with your feet and don't trade it. That's what I would do...
In general, having thought about it, at the moment I see RSJ as the McDonalds of the trading world, with the locals stuck in the role of small local sandwich shops being squeezed. The analogy makes a lot of sense to me.
Now in answer to your other questions. I have been around for a while and I am active (although a lot less active now than in 07/08), but because I am not a local, I suppose I don't feel the consuming anger and frustration evident here. My angle is simple. Think of me as an independent swing voter, who's trying to decide which side to join.
Quote from THE-BEAKER:
strange goings on at rsj.
after an elite trader public awareness stint they alter the information on their own website statistics.
not sure what thats all about.
maybe they dont like the publicity regarding their monopoly of the exchange so they lowered all the percentage round turns.
http://www.rsj.cz/actual-volume-401152939.html