LGBT - Terror

[OddTrader]

So I have a couple question for the lefties. If we should not judge and punish all Muslims because of the act of this one man, why must we judge and punish all American gun owners as a result of this one mans actions? If we should not pass laws that affect all Muslims as a result of this one mans actions, why must we pass laws that will affect every American as a result of this one mans actions? Why must we use laser like focus on the actions of this one man, careful not to include any other people, but paint with a very broad brush when judging Americans with little or no regard to the individual?

Just 2 cents, imo: For a more peaceful world and better economy, perhaps what we need would be more interfaith spirituality formations, not guns/divisions!

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http://theinterfaithobserver.org/jo...mation-of-a-nazarene-interfaith-activist.html
Religious Conservatives and Interfaith Dialogue

As readers of the Interfaith Observer know full well, the world is in the midst of an unparalleled religious diversity. Everyone acknowledges this new reality. The ways we respond are legion. Historically, progressive religious adherents are most likely to identify as religious pluralists and work intentionally to develop new friendships with religious strangers.

More conservative religious adherents often have a different perspective on religious diversity. An important aspect of Conservatism is “conserving” the tradition which feels threatened by the diversity of voices both within and beyond the boundaries of one’s community. I grew in a religiously diverse household (a Jewish father and Christian mother), but I was raised, educated, and licensed in a moderately conservative Evangelical Christian denomination – the Church of the Nazarene.

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http://www.pacificcentersf.org/
Since its beginnings in 1984, the Pacific Center for Spiritual Formation (PCSF) has sought to offer opportunities for individuals, groups, and congregations to experience a deeper awareness of God. Rooted in the Christian contemplative tradition, ecumenical in composition, and committed to interfaith practice, PCSF is a resource for contemplative enrichment in the San Francisco Bay area.
"


"
While religion can be a source of healing, peace, and reconciliation, it can also be a trigger, if not an underlying cause, for conflict between peoples of varying beliefs. With that awareness, the International Academy of Practical Theology convened its 2007 meeting around the theme of "Religion, Diversity, and Conflict." From the multiple seminars, lectures, and studies presented at that meeting, a selection was chosen for this book. Representing contributions from four continents, and drawing upon perspectives from African traditional religions, Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, the book offers a rich introduction to the problems and promises of religion in dialogue with 21st-century diversity. Religion, Diversity and Conflict will serve as a veritable primer on the field of practical theology. (Series: International Practical Theology - Vol. 15)
"

 

[conduit]

That could lead to something but may not like 100 other things. His aunt may have given him the money or a radical Imam. We simply don't know yet

In his low paying job where did he get the money to make these "pilgrimages"?

 

[conduit]

What a bullocks. Nobody is at war with a religion. Just because you are at war with extremists does not mean you outlaw a whole religion. At least, and God bless, is the US not there yet. If it was I would say let the US take some timeout from Nato and other international organizations and first reorganize it's confused political stance.

You clearly do not understand Islam.

We are at war with certain factions of Islam.

If the US was at war with Russia, would the US government let Russians into the country?

Why would anyone with half a brain allow potential enemy combatants into their country?

Canada is not at war with the United States. If Canada was at war with the US, I think that it is unlikely that Canada would allow US citizens into its country.

 

[conduit]

What utter crap are you talking about? Just because a kid is bragging about things means nothing. And just because Isis would LOVE to claim responsibility for this does not mean Anything. You have to learn to go with facts and research and not what your little tiny brain cells inside that big ego head of yours want to believe in. That Isis in any way financed or trained or ordered him to execute a mission is 100% unsubstantiated at this point. There is zero proof only pure guess work. Authorities are working on getting into the details so you have to unfortunately either sit down and patiently wait or go and train with your AR15 a bit longer. Who knows how much longer you will be able to keep it around home.

50 dead bodies. 53 more wounded. The shooter calls before hand and vows his loyalty to ISIS. Has made threats in the past relating to Islamic Jihad. Has had associations in the past with known terrorist/suicide bomber. Your refusal to identify this as Islamic terrorism is a perfect example of political ideology trumping intellect and simple common sense.

 

[WeToddDid2]

What a bullocks. Nobody is at war with a religion. Just because you are at war with extremists does not mean you outlaw a whole religion. At least, and God bless, is the US not there yet. If it was I would say let the US take some timeout from Nato and other international organizations and first reorganize it's confused political stance.

A faction is a smaller portion of a larger group that breaks away from it. A faction might take a fraction of the people from a large group and start a new group.

We are at war with the Islamic state of Irag and Syria (ISIS). ISIS is a faction of Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, IPA /ˈaɪsᵻl/), also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria[note 1] (ISIS, /ˈaɪsᵻs/),[31] and by its Arabic language acronym Daesh (داعش‎ dāʿish, IPA: [ˈdaːʕiʃ]),[32][33] is a Salafi jihadist militant group that follows an Islamic fundamentalist, Wahhabi doctrine of Sunni Islam.[34]

 

[CaptainObvious]

What utter crap are you talking about? Just because a kid is bragging about things means nothing. And just because Isis would LOVE to claim responsibility for this does not mean Anything. You have to learn to go with facts and research and not what your little tiny brain cells inside that big ego head of yours want to believe in. That Isis in any way financed or trained or ordered him to execute a mission is 100% unsubstantiated at this point. There is zero proof only pure guess work. Authorities are working on getting into the details so you have to unfortunately either sit down and patiently wait or go and train with your AR15 a bit longer. Who knows how much longer you will be able to keep it around home.

Typically I don't like to put people on ignore because I do enjoy a good debate, and I'm always ready to accept the fact that I can learn something of value from people with different points of view. However, I must make an exception in your case as you're just a little too fucking stupid to continue this conversation. Bye!

 

[conduit]

It's a pleasure to reason with people who are honest and fair and do not pervert the truth. In this instance I agree with you full heartedly but even debating with people of opposing opinion is a pleasure when facts and truth are respected. I just felt we should cheer the truth and a logical mindset much more often

You'd have to define exactly who you are at war with and how you plan on screening people using that definition. Trump's ideas are ridiculous, as are many of the posters on this site on this topic. If religion was some big defining criteria then Catholics would have been segregated and banned from immigration centuries ago.

I fully understand this situation. And I'll again ask the same question. What exactly has changed in US immigration policy the last 20-30 years ? Why are Trump and numerous posters on here claiming that it's an "open border" policy ? Is it not true that quite the opposite is true, that since 9/11 that US borders are more closed then ever ?

Governments cannot operate on emotion and bluster. Laws and policy have to be fairly designed and not discriminate based on ethnicity, religion, skin colour. You cannot judge people based on the most evil factions of their group, and quite frankly many people are being grouped into groups they don't even belong to or believe in. It all gets pretty silly when Trump starts questioning the ability of the judge based on their parents birth place. How many on here would want their career or personal life judged on anything to do with their parents ?

On this shooting, the shooter absolutely hated gay people. I am reminded that occasionally abortion clinic's in the US have had incidents because highly religious ( supposedly Christian ) shooters hated the people at the clinics. The fact 50+ people died is more reflective of the high powered weapons that are easily accessed in the US these days.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Just 2 cents, imo: For a more peaceful world and better economy, perhaps what we need would be more interfaith spirituality formations, not guns/divisions!

"
http://theinterfaithobserver.org/jo...mation-of-a-nazarene-interfaith-activist.html
Religious Conservatives and Interfaith Dialogue

As readers of the Interfaith Observer know full well, the world is in the midst of an unparalleled religious diversity. Everyone acknowledges this new reality. The ways we respond are legion. Historically, progressive religious adherents are most likely to identify as religious pluralists and work intentionally to develop new friendships with religious strangers.

More conservative religious adherents often have a different perspective on religious diversity. An important aspect of Conservatism is “conserving” the tradition which feels threatened by the diversity of voices both within and beyond the boundaries of one’s community. I grew in a religiously diverse household (a Jewish father and Christian mother), but I was raised, educated, and licensed in a moderately conservative Evangelical Christian denomination – the Church of the Nazarene.

"


"
http://www.pacificcentersf.org/
Since its beginnings in 1984, the Pacific Center for Spiritual Formation (PCSF) has sought to offer opportunities for individuals, groups, and congregations to experience a deeper awareness of God. Rooted in the Christian contemplative tradition, ecumenical in composition, and committed to interfaith practice, PCSF is a resource for contemplative enrichment in the San Francisco Bay area.
"


"
While religion can be a source of healing, peace, and reconciliation, it can also be a trigger, if not an underlying cause, for conflict between peoples of varying beliefs. With that awareness, the International Academy of Practical Theology convened its 2007 meeting around the theme of "Religion, Diversity, and Conflict." From the multiple seminars, lectures, and studies presented at that meeting, a selection was chosen for this book. Representing contributions from four continents, and drawing upon perspectives from African traditional religions, Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, the book offers a rich introduction to the problems and promises of religion in dialogue with 21st-century diversity. Religion, Diversity and Conflict will serve as a veritable primer on the field of practical theology. (Series: International Practical Theology - Vol. 15)
"

Can't hurt, but I doubt that's the answer to our problems. Somewhere along the line we went down a wrong path and it's led us into this horribly divided world. Perhaps we spent too much time celebrating our diversity when we should have been concentrating on unity. I don't pretend to know the answer, but it's painfully obvious we're in a bad spot. Maybe it's just there are too many f'n people, and given the rule of at least 10% of any group will be malcontents, that number grows proportionately as the population grows. We are now overwhelmed by the tyranny of the not so few.

 

[conduit]

Absolutely mate. And Trump will fuxx himself up so badly it's gonna be a pleasure to watch on. Just look to see it happen in realtime. Trump is a dirty demagogue and much worse than anything the US has to offer. Are other politicians cleaner?probably not but they at least keep a cool head and can be trusted with the nuclear arsenal key. Economically speaking Trump may actually bring some radical ideas to the table that are worth considering because of the current mess but Trump on immigration and foreign politics? Lol please no, unless the US wants to completely ridicule itself internationally. Russia, and Europe, China, and Japan will laugh their ass off over an uncontrolled statesman and bully. I am absolutely sure that Americans will find an anti Trump majority. People simply cannot be that stupid to vote someone like that into office. In that i am very relaxed and looking forward how Clinton will play this little egomaniac.

One thing is clear to me. People like Nine_Ender and conduit are not going to change their minds or admit any possibility that they might be wrong or that there is any merit on the other side. They prefer to sneer at people who disagree with them and disparage them and, in their own minds at least, demonstrate their moral superiority.

In fairness, those of us on the other side aren't budging either. We just see the world in entirely different ways and it is almost like we are in parallel universes, except for the fact their moral preening puts us at grave risk.

We have the opportunity at hand to resolve this once and for all. This election is truly a watershed. Trump should focus 100% on the immigration issue, despite the fact the media and Hillary will do their utmost to ignore it. Let this election be about the immigration issue to the exclusion of all other issues.

We know Trump's position: build a wall, start deporting illegals in large numbers, suspend most muslim immigration and no muslim refugees. We know Hillary's position as well, basically continue to Bush/Obama policy of open borders, lax enforcement, no deportations, acceptance of economic refugees in defiance of the law and repeated interventions in the middle east, leading to more refugees.

We know Trump sees islamic terrorism as a serious threat. Hillary will not use the term at all.

The country is at a crossroads. Let the voters decide. Then afterwards, we need to think seriously about allowing those states which disagree fundamentally with the ensuing direction of the country to secede.

One thing is clear to me. People like Nine_Ender and conduit are not going to change their minds or admit any possibility that they might be wrong or that there is any merit on the other side. They prefer to sneer at people who disagree with them and disparage them and, in their own minds at least, demonstrate their moral superiority.

In fairness, those of us on the other side aren't budging either. We just see the world in entirely different ways and it is almost like we are in parallel universes, except for the fact their moral preening puts us at grave risk.

We have the opportunity at hand to resolve this once and for all. This election is truly a watershed. Trump should focus 100% on the immigration issue, despite the fact the media and Hillary will do their utmost to ignore it. Let this election be about the immigration issue to the exclusion of all other issues.

We know Trump's position: build a wall, start deporting illegals in large numbers, suspend most muslim immigration and no muslim refugees. We know Hillary's position as well, basically continue to Bush/Obama policy of open borders, lax enforcement, no deportations, acceptance of economic refugees in defiance of the law and repeated interventions in the middle east, leading to more refugees.

We know Trump sees islamic terrorism as a serious threat. Hillary will not use the term at all.

The country is at a crossroads. Let the voters decide. Then afterwards, we need to think seriously about allowing those states which disagree fundamentally with the ensuing direction of the country to secede.

 

[conduit]

So your conclusion is for everyone to have bombs? Lol

How did this happen if bombs are illegal?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

The 2004 Madrid train bombings (also known in Spain as 11-M) were nearly simultaneous, coordinated bombings against the Cercanías commuter train system of Madrid, Spain, on the morning of 11 March 2004 – three days before Spain's general elections. The explosions killed 192 people and injured around 2,000

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How in the hell did this happen? Aren't bombs illegal in London?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

The 7 July 2005 London bombings, often referred to as 7/7, were a series of coordinated terrorist suicide bomb attacks incentral London which targeted civilians using the public transport system during the rush hour.

On the morning of Thursday, 7 July 2005, four Islamist extremists separately detonated three bombs in quick succession aboard London Underground trains across the city and, later, a fourth on a double-decker bus in Tavistock Square. Fifty-two people were killed and over 700 more were injured in the attacks, Britain's worst terrorist incident since the 1988 bombing ofPan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, as well as the country's first ever Islamist suicide attack.

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Please explain this one. Bombs are illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

The 2011 Norway attacks, referred to in Norway as 22 July (Norwegian: 22. juli),[14] the date of the events, were two sequential lone wolf terrorist attacks by Anders Behring Breivik against the government, the civilian population, and a Workers' Youth League (AUF)-run summer camp. The attacks claimed a total of 77 lives.