Legality of Healthcare

[RangeBar]

Quote from unretired:

You need be better educated as to what type of Country this is and what made it great.

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I fully understand that we are a representative republic. I'm using the term 'democracy' in its general sense.

Even if we were a true democracy I don't think things would be substantially different. However, if it were easy to vote and every issue were voted on by the people, (an absurd idea), I'm sure that conservatives would be even more unhappy with the results. The conservative positions are, by and large, anti-worker, anti-consumer, anti-environment, and elitist: it only survives at this time because the voting percentage of our citizens is so low. It also survives because the rural areas and the south get a proportion of representation that far exceeds their percentage of the population. It is so ironic that the stupid, conservative areas of the country are so heavily subsidized by the liberal areas of the country.

Doesn't matter. EVERY single progressive issue that has faced this nation since 1776 has followed the same course of events. First the truth is met with derision and scorn, followed by violent oppostition and finally accepted as common sense. This is true whether the issue was slavery, women's rights, civil rights, gay rights, income taxes, social security, Medicare, and many others. It's a shame that we have to fight tooth and nail for these gains but . . . it all comes out o.k. in the end.

 

[unretired]

RangeBar

Look ... I am very much in favor of real supported platforms.
I do not believe however, that true Republican and Democratic platforms exist as they did some 30-40 years ago.

What I mean is that those platforms were cogent, well meaning well designed and sensible. Each perspective, though different had merit.

For me it is quite clear that that system has been replaced, for all practical purpose
by the "Corporation of Washington DC" ... a ruling elite class Oligarchy that does not respect the wishes of their constituency ...
that experiences shifting tides of it's Corporate design, CEO and staff or czars.

So ... while many good governmental things in service to the people can happen ... and do to degree ...
often they come with compromise or a price ... and that usually is bad management and bigger government.

Both parties (or fronts of parties) are guilty of this.
There are few angels in Washington DC, but many snakes vying for power.

So ... as much as issues like health care need addressing ... I for one
am not willing to trust the snakes in Washington DC to get involved.

Based on both parties history and corruption I want far less government in every facet of American life.

Better and more efficient government ... yes.
More government ... no.

The reason this is posted in the Economics section is that it is very likely the real issue of Healthcare boils down to:
Money, assets and asset management and controls

Money -
---Yes and right away and control over new revenue.
---Functionally a "hostile takeover" of the entire medical field
worth trillions of dollars becomes an asset of "The Corporation of Washington DC"
---The new revenue base and flow is ginormous and brings balance to the FED after the huge bail-out.
---New controls can be implemented on the peoples and those
peoples can be designated good or bad assets and plans can be set in motion to have those
non-producing expensive bad assets liquidated off of the books.
---More babies and old people will die.

Which ever party was in likely would have gone after this asset base. I see it as pure evil.

 

[377OHMS]

Quote from RangeBar:

I think you should REALLY show your commitment and MOVE out of the country. You can go to some 3rd world nation where, like you, they believe that the wealthy are the ones worthy of participating in gov't.

Take Index Piker with you. He also has no sense of history, morality, or love for democracy.

No. I'll stay and help buy control back.

For years now when its time to get a physical I get on a plane and fly 5 hours to Reagan-National, drive up Wisconsin Ave. and visit my doctor across the street from NIH and caddy-corner from Bethesda Naval Medical Center. He accepts no insurance of any kind and so I write a check. I've done this for years despite sometimes having employer health insurance. I just dial the employer plan down to the minimum expense to me and then forget about it.

So, essentially I already live in the medical landscape that many of you will migrate to when you have the means and want first-class medical care under Obamacare.

I realize that isn't exactly practical for emergencies and I have ended up at Cedars Sinai locally and have had to show my insurance card just to get in for treatment. I didn't much like the experience.

Hopefully in the Obamacare future there will be entire hospitals that do not accept any insurance, have world-class doctors, nurses and equipment and only accept hard cash. I will patronize those hospitals. I anticipate that there will be an entire upper-tier of medical care that is outside of the government system as is occuring in the UK.

 

[unretired]

Quote from 377OHMS:

Hopefully in the Obamacare future there will be entire hospitals that do not accept any insurance, have world-class doctors, nurses and equipment and only accept hard cash. ... I anticipate that there will be an entire upper-tier of medical care that is outside of the government system as is occuring in the UK.

Very interesting observation

You are right ... Thanks for the insight.

 

[Index piker]

Quote from RangeBar:

It is so ironic that the stupid, conservative areas of the country are so heavily subsidized by the liberal areas of the country.

I suspect someone has been massaging the data a bit but even if true what's your excuse you loser liberals being exploited by stupid conservatives?

 

[RangeBar]

Quote from 377OHMS:

No. I'll stay and help buy control back.

For years now when its time to get a physical I get on a plane and fly 5 hours to Reagan-National, drive up Wisconsin Ave. and visit my doctor across the street from NIH and caddy-corner from Bethesda Naval Medical Center. He accepts no insurance of any kind and so I write a check. I've done this for years despite sometimes having employer health insurance. I just dial the employer plan down to the minimum expense to me and then forget about it.

So, essentially I already live in the medical landscape that many of you will migrate to when you have the means and want first-class medical care under Obamacare.

I realize that isn't exactly practical for emergencies and I have ended up at Cedars Sinai locally and have had to show my insurance card just to get in for treatment. I didn't much like the experience.


Hopefully in the Obamacare future there will be entire hospitals that do not accept any insurance, have world-class doctors, nurses and equipment and only accept hard cash. I will patronize those hospitals. I anticipate that there will be an entire upper-tier of medical care that is outside of the government system as is occuring in the UK.

I would oppose any efforts by Obama or anybody else who would remove the options that you just described. If you want and can pay for your own personal care then I support that right.

However, any provider providing that option should not be allowed to receive any funds from the gov't system. In other words, PROVIDERS are 'all in' or 'all out' of the universal, nationalized system.

I would not support denying these universal benefits to people who make use of the 'private' providers. For example, you go to a 'private' doctor for your physicals but an emergency forces you into Cedar-Sinai: under my plan you would be treated by the gov't system (Cedar-Sinai).

Now, I'm not sure that these 'private' providers will have enough customers but I wouldn't want them to be forbidden.

Unretired: I understand where you are coming from. I just don't share your distrust or cynical view of the federal gov't or our representatives. They say there are 2 sides to every story (some say 3). In the governing of a nation as large and diverse as the USA, they various issues have 22, 52, 102 and even more 'sides'. No matter what our reps do, they are going to appear 'snakeish'. As they say, it isn't pleasant to watch sauage or democracy being made. We stumble to and fro but still manage to keep going forward.

 

[RangeBar]

Quote from Index piker:

I suspect someone has been massaging the data a bit but even if true what's your excuse you loser liberals being exploited by stupid conservatives?

O.K.- I apologize for inserting 'stupid'. I know you're not 'stupid' and I know many conservatives who are very intelligent and educated.

Although I admit that not ALL conservatives are 'stupid', I do have to say that I've NEVER met a 'liberal' who wasn't more intelligent, educated and possesing a wider world-view than the average person. (Note: 'Liberal' should not be construed to equal Democrat.)

This link shows the amount of federal tax dollars received by each state as a percentage of federal taxes paid by the state. Note that the biggest receivers are conservative, mostly southern states. The states with negative returns tend to be liberal and western/northern.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html

Under your concept of 'wealth should make the rules': Conservative viewpoints would be solidly drowned out by the voices of the rich liberals.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from unretired:
"... For me it is quite clear that that system has been replaced, for all practical purpose by the "Corporation of Washington DC" ... a ruling elite class Oligarchy that does not respect the wishes of their constituency ...
[/B]

Correctamundo! America has evolved in an Oligarchy, just like most of the rest of the world. "We the people" are merely workers, serfs, even SLAVES... to work for the Washington elites. Most don't recognize it because we have sham elections from time to time.

Our Founding Fathers would cringe if they knew.

 

[RangeBar]

Another, briefer, view of the discrepancy between the states that pay the most in federal income taxes and states that receive the most:


10 Biggest Receivers
1. New Mexico $2.03
2. Mississippi $2.02
3. Alaska $1.84
4. Louisiana $1.78
5. West Virginia $1.76
6. North Dakota $1.68
7. Alabama $1.66
8. South Dakota $1.53
9. Kentucky $1.51
10. Virginia $1.51

10 Biggest Donators
1. New Jersey $0.61
2. Nevada $0.65
3. Connecticut $0.69
4. New Hampshire $0.71
5. Minnesota $0.72
6. Illinois $0.75
7. Delaware $0.77
8. California $0.78
9. New York $0.79
10. Colorado $0.81



Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/poli...s-federal-dollars-received.html#ixzz0i68VMxw6

 

[Copernicus]

Quote from RangeBar:

Another, briefer, view of the discrepancy between the states that pay the most in federal income taxes and states that receive the most:


10 Biggest Receivers
1. New Mexico $2.03
2. Mississippi $2.02
3. Alaska $1.84
4. Louisiana $1.78
5. West Virginia $1.76
6. North Dakota $1.68
7. Alabama $1.66
8. South Dakota $1.53
9. Kentucky $1.51
10. Virginia $1.51

10 Biggest Donators
1. New Jersey $0.61
2. Nevada $0.65
3. Connecticut $0.69
4. New Hampshire $0.71
5. Minnesota $0.72
6. Illinois $0.75
7. Delaware $0.77
8. California $0.78
9. New York $0.79
10. Colorado $0.81



Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/poli...s-federal-dollars-received.html#ixzz0i68VMxw6

NY and CT u really believe its liberal donations?

its like NYC, 5% of population pays so the majority can get housing subsidies to live in the city.