Legality of Healthcare

[RangeBar]

Quote from sprstpd:

Gee, what a nice thought. You're an idiot.

I'm not an idiot at all. Ususally, to spur change/progress, the tension of the situation has to become so great that the MAJORITY are impacted and will force the issue.

Let's face it, in terms of health care, MOST people already have adequate health care coverage. That is, at least 60%. This includes people who are employed and get health benefits, senior citizens, and veterens. They don't give a hoot about anybody else. At least not to the point of supporting 'great' change.

The health care reform bill that is about to be passed is NOT 'great' change: it involves very minor changes. It is not enough. Raising the 'tension' of the situation by raising health insurance premiums will bring about 'great' change.

What should 'GREAT' health care reform do? It should:

- provide universal, single-payer health care for ALL Americans.

- it should preserve the right for any individual to purchase/pay for their own medical care. Doctors & providers of 'private' health care services should not be entitled to receive gov't-based insurance coverage.

- The gov't plan should NOT cover cosmetic surgery except in extreme cases of disfigurement, infertility, penile dysfunction, or other frivilous conditions.

- The gov't plan SHOULD pay for birth control including abortions.

- Claims service personal and other admin should be civil servent employees.

- The gov't should roll Medicare, Medicaid, and Veteren agencies into a single health care system. Gov't should own, staff and operate all hospitals that receive gov't payments. For example, doctors, nurses and technicians are EMPLOYEES with no vested interest in pushing drugs or other care.

- Dental coverage should be included.

- Taxes should be increased, if necessary, to pay for this program.

- To prevent waste and fraud, HUGE rewards should be made available to any whistle-blower whose claims are proven.

I'm sure there are more, many more, things to include but this is the basic objective.

 

[sprstpd]

Quote from RangeBar:

I'm not an idiot at all.

Your reasoning is we need to make things crappy to make things better. It is always an idiotic move but I don't expect you to agree.

 

[risktaker]

For all the retards against health care reform:

How can you call a "health care system" fair/good when:

If I have insurance, the insurance company pays $10,000 for a procedure.

If I pay cash, I have to pay $50,000 for the same procedure.

And if I need to obtain individual coverage, the insurance crooks say bend over?

The US health care "system" is BROKEN.

The only ones who claim it's "good" are those lucky to have coverage at little cost from employers or government!

The health insurance business is a huge scam. To profit from someone's poor health/need for medical services is a ripoff.

If you had cancer and had to pay tens of thousands in out of pocket expenses, how would you feel knowing that every hospital, doctor, insurance co, laboratory, pharmaceutical was making a huge profit from your bad luck???

What if you *couldn't* get any type of coverage at all?

 

[BSAM]

Quote from risktaker:

For all the retards against health care reform:.....

You're wasting your time, Risk. When you suggest ideas that take people away from their comfort zone, the autoresponse is negative.

You can be so lucid that a first grader could easily grasp a situation, but people believe what they want to believe. A certain segment of the public is so brainwashed/braindead that they just can't see the forest for the trees.

You may as well have said that the days of the week are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday; and they'd still argue your point. Oh well.....

 

[RangeBar]

Quote from sprstpd:

Your reasoning is we need to make things crappy to make things better. It is always an idiotic move but I don't expect you to agree.

I understand your frustration with my logic but, the fact is, things are ALREADY 'crappy'. Now, is it 'crappy' for people 65 years & older: NO !, they have coverage. 80% of the country's health care costs go to care for senior citizens. I am not complaining about this, I just want this type of sercurity for ALL Americans.

It is 'crappy' for families & children who fall in the 40% of those with no coverage. Families in their 20' and 30's who represent the FUTURE of our species/world/country. If we can spend 80% of health care dollars on people who are in the last 10% of life then we should surely be able to provide care young people.

Who else is it 'crappy' for: the 63% of Americans who had to file personal bankruptcy in 2008 due to medical bills. Of those people, 4 out 6 HAD health insurance when they got sick. Nobody in Europe, Canada, or Japan have filed for bankruptcy due to 'medical bills'. It's an American phenom and shame.

My wife and I are in our mid-50's. this year our health insurance premiums will be $6,500.00. Is that too much: no, I don't think so. Eventually we will get sick and it doesn't take much to run up a 100K - 200K bill. HOWEVER, our insurance will be cancelled the first time we encounter such a sickness. Our income taxes, (not rate, actual tax amount) could be increased 4% and we would not pay more than $6,500. We would GLADLY pay this to the gov't knowing that the care will be there when we need it. (BTW, 30% of that 6,500 goes to admin expenses and profits for BC/BS: Medicare pays about 3% in admin costs.)

Thankfully, the health care reform bill that is about to be passed will prevent health insurance companies from 'cancelling' policiy holders. The question is: what are health insurance companies bringing to the table in the first place. The answer is: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

 

[sprstpd]

Quote from RangeBar:

I understand your frustration with my logic but, the fact is, things are ALREADY 'crappy'.

And I understand what you are saying, but settling for a crappy fix in hopes that it will get better in the future is not ideal. Maybe it is the best we can hope for, but I am not so sure. I would rather this bill be scrapped entirely than be passed. I don't have high hopes that it will do any good and it will probably cause premiums to go up overnight. That's a lose-lose situation in my book. Start over and attack the costs of healthcare.

 

[dandxg]

Quote from risktaker:

For all the retards against health care reform:

How can you call a "health care system" fair/good when:

If I have insurance, the insurance company pays $10,000 for a procedure.

If I pay cash, I have to pay $50,000 for the same procedure.

And if I need to obtain individual coverage, the insurance crooks say bend over?

The US health care "system" is BROKEN.

The only ones who claim it's "good" are those lucky to have coverage at little cost from employers or government!

The health insurance business is a huge scam. To profit from someone's poor health/need for medical services is a ripoff.

If you had cancer and had to pay tens of thousands in out of pocket expenses, how would you feel knowing that every hospital, doctor, insurance co, laboratory, pharmaceutical was making a huge profit from your bad luck???

What if you *couldn't* get any type of coverage at all?

Try comparing what even Medicare pays for drugs compared to the same freakin' pill in Canada. As soon as you raise that one the drug companies say boo hoo R and D is expensive. Ok so how come you can gouge us but not the rest of the world?

 

[RangeBar]

Quote from sprstpd:

And I understand what you are saying, but settling for a crappy fix in hopes that it will get better in the future is not ideal. Maybe it is the best we can hope for, but I am not so sure. I would rather this bill be scrapped entirely than be passed. I don't have high hopes that it will do any good and it will probably cause premiums to go up overnight. That's a lose-lose situation in my book. Start over and attack the costs of healthcare.

What is the purpose of starting over? In an election year no less. What/who has changed: nothing.

The Republicans absolutely do NOT want health care reform that targets universal care for ALL Americans to pass. They don't want any reform bill to pass under Obama's tenure.

The Republicans have advanced the following:

1. Limit malpractice awards. To 250K. You have diabetes, go into get your left leg amputated, the doctor/nurse/technican, somebody, screws up and your right leg gets amputated by mistake. No problem, we can easily remove the correct leg, bill you for it of course, and btw... here's 250K.

2. Make health insurance available across state lines. Great idea and supported 100% by Obama and the Dems. What puzzles me is how the Republican knuckleheads balance this with their adversion to 'Federalism'. Any such plan would require FEDERAL rules to govern health insurance that is now done by the states.

3. Forbid health insurance companies from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions. All are in agreement: that is in the current bill.

Starting over is a non-starter. Get what we can with the current bill and adjust it in the future as needed.

I am all ears to those who can tell me any other REFORM plans being pushed by Republicans OR conservative Democrats.

 

[BSAM]

Quote from sprstpd:

And I understand what you are saying, but settling for a crappy fix in hopes that it will get better in the future is not ideal. Maybe it is the best we can hope for, but I am not so sure. I would rather this bill be scrapped entirely than be passed. I don't have high hopes that it will do any good and it will probably cause premiums to go up overnight. That's a lose-lose situation in my book. Start over and attack the costs of healthcare.

Tend to agree with at least some of this. I do believe that Obama has some good ideas, but I'm not sure about what all is involved with his entire plan. For that matter, does anybody? I just know that our system in the USA is a scam.

The main problem that most overlook, either intentionally or otherwise is that in the USA we have a for profit system.

 

[Index piker]

Quote from BSAM:



The main problem that most overlook, either intentionally or otherwise is that in the USA we have a for profit system.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean who wouldn't rather have their health care be provided by unpaid volunteers or hobbyists.
We could save a fortune, but then you folks would complain about the uptick in the mortuary business.

Geez what were we thinking. :eek: