I have no idea what a fractal is or pretty much anything you just said there. WAY over my head.
Leave stop loss and target or exit early?
- Thread starter blox87
- Start date
Any possible way to have that explained? I looked up what a fractal was and while it makes a little sense, it's still way too complex for me to comprehend.
Someone can PM me if you want, please!
Someone can PM me if you want, please!
<p>
<strong><u>Intellectual Masturbation</u></strong>… Don’t pay attention to his pseudo-rational writing style & most of his pseudo-intellectual comments and try to read between lines (not an easy task) sometimes he has valid point but most of the time is blurred by all the mumbo-jumbo in his posts.
Forget about the names (fractals or whatever) and the broad generalization on the ES that trends have three moves (5, 6 or 100) this is not the issue. IMHO, and as you know, the key point is that price trends don’t move in a straight line, meaning that they make deeper moves to the trendier side with shallow retrace/pullbacks to the weaker side.
So if you are not “scalping” very fast charts but you are trading intraday swings or longer and if you want to find better success placing stop losses/target it’s a good idea to identify what move you are trading. If you find a setup in a chart, it’s a good idea to know if this wave (move) is a continuation of a trend that has already been clearly established or is in the middle or you have recognized (or think that you have recognized) the potential beginning of a new trend.
Once you define that (and implying from some of the comments JH post) you need to put that in perspective of a bigger picture (for example but not necessarily a longer timeframe, I think he is implying volume flow or something like that) to see where is the “higher” move and in perspective of a smaller picture (for example but not necessarily a faster timeframe) I am assuming to define a better entry.
As an extreme example (timeframes are for the sake of the argument) a move (wave or whatever you want to call it) in a daily chart can contain 1000s of 15 mins moves (up and down). So the natural stops/targets in a “perfect” setup in a 15 mins can work flawlessly if you, without knowing, are in synch with the major move while the same apparent exactly “perfect” setup can chop the hell out of you or your targets not even remotely get close if that setup is taking place when the higher move has exhausted (or is in the middle or changing direction) and need to breath before continue.
In simple words, check where is your trade in the context of your current timeframe and also in the context of a “higher” move. If you don’t have an auto-trading system (this definitions are worthless for them), most of time entries, stops, targets and invalid setups are only a “few” ticks away (those few ticks that kill most of small traders) from you original areas ….<br />
jjrvat
<strong><u>Intellectual Masturbation</u></strong>… Don’t pay attention to his pseudo-rational writing style & most of his pseudo-intellectual comments and try to read between lines (not an easy task) sometimes he has valid point but most of the time is blurred by all the mumbo-jumbo in his posts.
Forget about the names (fractals or whatever) and the broad generalization on the ES that trends have three moves (5, 6 or 100) this is not the issue. IMHO, and as you know, the key point is that price trends don’t move in a straight line, meaning that they make deeper moves to the trendier side with shallow retrace/pullbacks to the weaker side.
So if you are not “scalping” very fast charts but you are trading intraday swings or longer and if you want to find better success placing stop losses/target it’s a good idea to identify what move you are trading. If you find a setup in a chart, it’s a good idea to know if this wave (move) is a continuation of a trend that has already been clearly established or is in the middle or you have recognized (or think that you have recognized) the potential beginning of a new trend.
Once you define that (and implying from some of the comments JH post) you need to put that in perspective of a bigger picture (for example but not necessarily a longer timeframe, I think he is implying volume flow or something like that) to see where is the “higher” move and in perspective of a smaller picture (for example but not necessarily a faster timeframe) I am assuming to define a better entry.
As an extreme example (timeframes are for the sake of the argument) a move (wave or whatever you want to call it) in a daily chart can contain 1000s of 15 mins moves (up and down). So the natural stops/targets in a “perfect” setup in a 15 mins can work flawlessly if you, without knowing, are in synch with the major move while the same apparent exactly “perfect” setup can chop the hell out of you or your targets not even remotely get close if that setup is taking place when the higher move has exhausted (or is in the middle or changing direction) and need to breath before continue.
In simple words, check where is your trade in the context of your current timeframe and also in the context of a “higher” move. If you don’t have an auto-trading system (this definitions are worthless for them), most of time entries, stops, targets and invalid setups are only a “few” ticks away (those few ticks that kill most of small traders) from you original areas ….<br />
jjrvat
Google "Jack Hershey" and read the first entry that comes up, which is:
Jack Hersheyâs Incomprehensible Method
http://www.tradersnarrative.com/jack-hersheys-incomprehensible-method-971.html
Jack Hersheyâs Incomprehensible Method
http://www.tradersnarrative.com/jack-hersheys-incomprehensible-method-971.html
Study this arcane knowledge carefully (Chapters XVII-XX):
http://www.fullbooks.com/Gargantua-and-Pantagruel-Book-II-2.html
Seriously, it's all there.
With my best wishes to Jack (peace)
Several people have commented to you.
As you see 4 out of 5 feel one way; 1 out of five is going somewhere.
Here is the picture you could not draw (it was copied 2500 times after ehorn posted it in one of the places it was posted).
I eased you into a possible new way to think. You think in up and down, presently.
I tried to express that a trend has three parts (minimum) and these parts are called moves.
I did not push too hard to get you to think; that is a tough challenge to do remotely.
Price moves in containers and, in those containers, it moves left to advance and right when giving ground. This is an expression in terms of a mature trader's neutral bias.
Now you have the picture composed of parallelograms nested within one another. You can "see" that you do not have this "picture" as you trade and, as a consequnce, you have far to go to get to expertese.
I want all potential traders to become experts.
See your 2 point targets.
See your 6 point "protection".
Can you visualize me trading by doing "hold" and "reversals" instead of entry/exit?
Most posters here just do entry/exit so they can sit on the sidelines most of the time. The sidelines are risk free.
Sidelining is very good when you do not "know that you know".
Expert trading involves several things. I suggest these things from the perspective of an expert trader with over 50 years of expert experience.
1. Displaying the market in a consumate manner.
2. Having ALL the moves in ALL the required fractals fully observable. The trading fractal IS in the MIDDLE of three nested fractals.
3. You have to BE in the market to extract the OFFER.
4. ALWAYS extracting the OFFER by seeing on the CORRECT side of the market for the FULL MOVE of each segment of the market. This is how sentiment and timing become joined as one.
If a person is GIVEN 1 and 2 on a visible display, then he can learn to do 3 and 4 in one day. I have experienced people having their first day in a new market and these people PERFORMED all during this first day.
For detractors like the 3 T's I have posted the 3 and 4 items a day in advance so these detractors could sit through a day and watch (with their normal fear, anxiety and anger) the events (17 trades in this case) as the trades happen and happen in the order suggested and see the channel reversal within 5 to 7 minutes of the stated time the day before it happened.
I only posted to you in response to your posted situation and pertinent question. Your choice is to get to "yes" or stay at "no".
To trade as an expert at my level of expertise it is a matter of ALWAYS being in the market and ALWAYS being on the right side of the market. Normally for most people, all reversals happen during the formation of bars that are seen in fixed time frames. This eliminantes 1 and 2 as being possible. Therefore, most people just "make do" it turns out.
Permit yourself to replicate the drawing shown on 100 charts. At the end of this drill you will find your mind differentiated with respect to how the market moves. Good Luck.
As you see 4 out of 5 feel one way; 1 out of five is going somewhere.
Here is the picture you could not draw (it was copied 2500 times after ehorn posted it in one of the places it was posted).
I eased you into a possible new way to think. You think in up and down, presently.
I tried to express that a trend has three parts (minimum) and these parts are called moves.
I did not push too hard to get you to think; that is a tough challenge to do remotely.
Price moves in containers and, in those containers, it moves left to advance and right when giving ground. This is an expression in terms of a mature trader's neutral bias.
Now you have the picture composed of parallelograms nested within one another. You can "see" that you do not have this "picture" as you trade and, as a consequnce, you have far to go to get to expertese.
I want all potential traders to become experts.
See your 2 point targets.
See your 6 point "protection".
Can you visualize me trading by doing "hold" and "reversals" instead of entry/exit?
Most posters here just do entry/exit so they can sit on the sidelines most of the time. The sidelines are risk free.
Sidelining is very good when you do not "know that you know".
Expert trading involves several things. I suggest these things from the perspective of an expert trader with over 50 years of expert experience.
1. Displaying the market in a consumate manner.
2. Having ALL the moves in ALL the required fractals fully observable. The trading fractal IS in the MIDDLE of three nested fractals.
3. You have to BE in the market to extract the OFFER.
4. ALWAYS extracting the OFFER by seeing on the CORRECT side of the market for the FULL MOVE of each segment of the market. This is how sentiment and timing become joined as one.
If a person is GIVEN 1 and 2 on a visible display, then he can learn to do 3 and 4 in one day. I have experienced people having their first day in a new market and these people PERFORMED all during this first day.
For detractors like the 3 T's I have posted the 3 and 4 items a day in advance so these detractors could sit through a day and watch (with their normal fear, anxiety and anger) the events (17 trades in this case) as the trades happen and happen in the order suggested and see the channel reversal within 5 to 7 minutes of the stated time the day before it happened.
I only posted to you in response to your posted situation and pertinent question. Your choice is to get to "yes" or stay at "no".
To trade as an expert at my level of expertise it is a matter of ALWAYS being in the market and ALWAYS being on the right side of the market. Normally for most people, all reversals happen during the formation of bars that are seen in fixed time frames. This eliminantes 1 and 2 as being possible. Therefore, most people just "make do" it turns out.
Permit yourself to replicate the drawing shown on 100 charts. At the end of this drill you will find your mind differentiated with respect to how the market moves. Good Luck.
first degree:
You may wish to read this post line by line and replace the vague parts with my comments to you in this thread.
It is always a god learning exercise to read critically and "know" when errors or omissions are being presented.
This person shares your handicap of not knowing how trends work and not knowing how fractals are nested.
His prefrence will always be to be "right" rather than knowledgeable about reality. For these reasons, he cannot acquire skills and knowledge since his mind is usually in an incoherent state.
There is a requirement to be coherent while learning. the condition of coherence is what sets the scene for short term memory to become long term memory as the primeval process that the brain does unconsciously to build the mind. Often it is posted that thousands of hours are required to learn to trade. Almost all of that time is spent in incoherence whose emotional characterisitcs are anxiety, fear and anger.
you stepped "out" of incoherence for a period to have your revelation. Building it into permanent long term memory was happening. that is how you came to do many things:
1. ser a target,
2. set a stop,
3. ask a question that you mind generated consciously to begin to "fit the new pieces together".
Always use responses to you to sort the wheat from the chaff and understand why others cannot move forward from mistaken beliefs.
I'm sure you can see that this post is all pseudo whatever.....
Good luck.