The illustration was from a thread entitled "nested fractals". Moderators closed the thread today.
Leave stop loss and target or exit early?
- Thread starter blox87
- Start date
Sloppy looking fractals.
It just seems like using the word fractal embellishes the reality of sloppy market patterns generated by flocking behavior, which tends to repeat itself, but not very well, at least not as well as a real fractal.
It just seems like using the word fractal embellishes the reality of sloppy market patterns generated by flocking behavior, which tends to repeat itself, but not very well, at least not as well as a real fractal.
Jack,
I very much appreciate the time you take to explain all of this to me. I don't know you, but so far you are speaking in a very complex way that seems to make what is simple into something that is harder than it needs to be. You remind me of a guy in a mIRC chat channel that I used to go into during the forex trading day. He based his beliefs off of some sort of "in-the-moment" Buddhism where he would only try to think in present terms so that no emotions could distract him and when he would look for a trend he would squint his eyes so that he would see with his mind and take away the noise of the market. He was a great guy, very patient, and a lot of help.
From the picture I see what you mean as far as "nested" and by "fractals" I had to look it up and see what it meant, but it makes sense in a way. I'm not really sure that I can comprehend how to always be in the market, but that is ok because I am developing my own strategy that gives me only a few setups a day and I am ok with that.
I also want it to be known that although my first post here was only a few days ago, that does not mean my education or knowledge in the financial markets began a few days ago.
My experience started in 2003 when I was introduced to the stock market. I bought stocks on tips or opinions from the person who introduced me. It just so happened we were in a bull market and I made some money on all of the stocks I bought, but not enough to really make it worth anything.
In late 2004 - early 2005 I started foreign exchange trading. It didn't last long as the forex markets were generally slow moving and I got bored of it.
I then took a break for awhile, getting into some mutual funds and a Roth IRA.
In 2007 I went to start trading futures, but withdrew the money after a month of not trading even 1 contract and didn't want to pay the Tradestation fee.
Now, having quit my full-time job a few months ago and not knowing what I want to do with my life, I am making another attempt at trading giving it my full-time effort. The art of daytrading is particularly new, but the concepts and ideas behind charts isn't. My biggest problem is the trading plan and how to find high probability trades while trying to take out all of the guess work. The guess work right now are my exits and that is my biggest problem.
I will end this by saying that today I was 2 for 2 in profitable trades ending with +4 points ($200 before commissions on a simulation account). On my first trade I micromanaged the stop after price moved 1 point in my favor. It just so happened that I moved my stop to 3 ticks away from my entry beneath a low and price never returned to that spot instead going to my target for profit. I could have taken 2 other trades, 1 that was not exactly my setup, but one that made sense to my subconscious, and another that I found on the 15min and bounced exactly on the 5min where a perfect entry would have been and that actually worked out exactly as I expected. Both ended up going to target. I don't like to play the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" game, but I think I'm starting to "get there" in some way when I stay disciplined and confident.
I very much appreciate the time you take to explain all of this to me. I don't know you, but so far you are speaking in a very complex way that seems to make what is simple into something that is harder than it needs to be. You remind me of a guy in a mIRC chat channel that I used to go into during the forex trading day. He based his beliefs off of some sort of "in-the-moment" Buddhism where he would only try to think in present terms so that no emotions could distract him and when he would look for a trend he would squint his eyes so that he would see with his mind and take away the noise of the market. He was a great guy, very patient, and a lot of help.
From the picture I see what you mean as far as "nested" and by "fractals" I had to look it up and see what it meant, but it makes sense in a way. I'm not really sure that I can comprehend how to always be in the market, but that is ok because I am developing my own strategy that gives me only a few setups a day and I am ok with that.
I also want it to be known that although my first post here was only a few days ago, that does not mean my education or knowledge in the financial markets began a few days ago.
My experience started in 2003 when I was introduced to the stock market. I bought stocks on tips or opinions from the person who introduced me. It just so happened we were in a bull market and I made some money on all of the stocks I bought, but not enough to really make it worth anything.
In late 2004 - early 2005 I started foreign exchange trading. It didn't last long as the forex markets were generally slow moving and I got bored of it.
I then took a break for awhile, getting into some mutual funds and a Roth IRA.
In 2007 I went to start trading futures, but withdrew the money after a month of not trading even 1 contract and didn't want to pay the Tradestation fee.
Now, having quit my full-time job a few months ago and not knowing what I want to do with my life, I am making another attempt at trading giving it my full-time effort. The art of daytrading is particularly new, but the concepts and ideas behind charts isn't. My biggest problem is the trading plan and how to find high probability trades while trying to take out all of the guess work. The guess work right now are my exits and that is my biggest problem.
I will end this by saying that today I was 2 for 2 in profitable trades ending with +4 points ($200 before commissions on a simulation account). On my first trade I micromanaged the stop after price moved 1 point in my favor. It just so happened that I moved my stop to 3 ticks away from my entry beneath a low and price never returned to that spot instead going to my target for profit. I could have taken 2 other trades, 1 that was not exactly my setup, but one that made sense to my subconscious, and another that I found on the 15min and bounced exactly on the 5min where a perfect entry would have been and that actually worked out exactly as I expected. Both ended up going to target. I don't like to play the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" game, but I think I'm starting to "get there" in some way when I stay disciplined and confident.
thanks for your reply.
Quote from jack hershey:
Several people have commented to you.
As you see 4 out of 5 feel one way; 1 out of five is going somewhere.
Here is the picture you could not draw (it was copied 2500 times after ehorn posted it in one of the places it was posted).
I eased you into a possible new way to think. You think in up and down, presently.
I tried to express that a trend has three parts (minimum) and these parts are called moves.
I did not push too hard to get you to think; that is a tough challenge to do remotely.
Price moves in containers and, in those containers, it moves left to advance and right when giving ground. This is an expression in terms of a mature trader's neutral bias.
Now you have the picture composed of parallelograms nested within one another. You can "see" that you do not have this "picture" as you trade and, as a consequnce, you have far to go to get to expertese.
I want all potential traders to become experts.
See your 2 point targets.
See your 6 point "protection".
Can you visualize me trading by doing "hold" and "reversals" instead of entry/exit?
Most posters here just do entry/exit so they can sit on the sidelines most of the time. The sidelines are risk free.
Sidelining is very good when you do not "know that you know".
Expert trading involves several things. I suggest these things from the perspective of an expert trader with over 50 years of expert experience.
1. Displaying the market in a consumate manner.
2. Having ALL the moves in ALL the required fractals fully observable. The trading fractal IS in the MIDDLE of three nested fractals.
3. You have to BE in the market to extract the OFFER.
4. ALWAYS extracting the OFFER by seeing on the CORRECT side of the market for the FULL MOVE of each segment of the market. This is how sentiment and timing become joined as one.
If a person is GIVEN 1 and 2 on a visible display, then he can learn to do 3 and 4 in one day. I have experienced people having their first day in a new market and these people PERFORMED all during this first day.
For detractors like the 3 T's I have posted the 3 and 4 items a day in advance so these detractors could sit through a day and watch (with their normal fear, anxiety and anger) the events (17 trades in this case) as the trades happen and happen in the order suggested and see the channel reversal within 5 to 7 minutes of the stated time the day before it happened.
I only posted to you in response to your posted situation and pertinent question. Your choice is to get to "yes" or stay at "no".
To trade as an expert at my level of expertise it is a matter of ALWAYS being in the market and ALWAYS being on the right side of the market. Normally for most people, all reversals happen during the formation of bars that are seen in fixed time frames. This eliminantes 1 and 2 as being possible. Therefore, most people just "make do" it turns out.
Permit yourself to replicate the drawing shown on 100 charts. At the end of this drill you will find your mind differentiated with respect to how the market moves. Good Luck.
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Jack hershey,
I was absolutely fascinated by your dialogue of fractal concept as related to trading, but I am very hesitant to ask some basic questions especially in front of the most skeptical audience here.
Is there any link you could suggest for me to read on to become familiarized with the terminology and fundamental concept?
Thank you!
Your best bet would be to "google" spydertrader. Then review the ET threads which have millions of hits/year and/or go to active threads on other websites.
Usually, there is an archiving effort going on somewhere. At these places you can download hardrive book quantities of info (detailed stuff) on video, audio and documentation. I am an amateur by NFA standards but not a 501 (c) (3) by IRS standards; this means I give away everything and do not pay taxes on anything.
Long ago during the floppy era before ET, there were ATS's available (See places like MSN, misc invest. Worden Bros has (had) an ATS with a Sharpe Ratio for equities that is over 60. Raging Bull has a lot of live trading calls for high beta type stocks; most are before ET existed.
This thread did a nutshell version for a person who I thought had the potential to grasp opportunity. Asking questions here is not a good idea sincw it qould divert the OP from his current tasking. It is not a good idea to "take over" a thread by going in a different direction.
Edit: See the post above for starters.
It is a shame you don't ready the journals whose sites are posted above. Jack Hershey's methods definitelywork. It is logical and geometric. Thousands of people from all over the world follow his methods. You have to study and do the work, though. If it were easy, everybody would be doing it.
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TIKITRADER, thank you for posting the links they are greatly appreciated.