Learning to Read the Tape

Zzzz1 said:
So, can you admit that what you said does not apply to any market where there is no centralized exchange? Can you admit that your points are invalidated for stocks that trade in a fragmented market? Because if yes then we can move on to futures.
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I think we have different beliefs completely about what an edge is in trading. Maybe you think there is a secret sauce to it all ... I don't.

Stocks have way more variables being non centralized but it's probably not impossible to watch transactions and get a feel for it. You can certainly construct a workable map of a futures market using just the tape. Sure .. as a pro you would pay attention to bond auctions, economics, other asset classes, bid and offer games etc. But that isn't the point. It's all there in the time and sales if you wanted to just use that. How much is trading at these prices, is size having effect on liquidity, is it a large volume day or slow, are buyers or sellers more aggressive now vs previously, and can they take the bid / lift the offer and stick it...is this a good price to lean on for a few ticks given all these factors. Get good at making those determinations from the tape and there is your edge.

I got out of scanning the other tale reading thread featuring Maverick74 that tape reading extremely relevant though not worth the effort nowadays in his opinion... that was 10+ years ago and the stuff he was reading was in stocks and really niche patterns in the prints (double prints etc). Seems the definition of tape reading there was finding exact signs of specialists etc in the prints... which we generalize nowadays to just looking for volume and liquidity, as multiple market makers at play.

Think I am done here for today. It's been fun. Go on though if you want to get into futures. Please include counter argument as to why observing a shit tonne of volume in the tape absorbed at the bid the last few prices over a few minutes, then some large size aggressively lifting and then going bid, isnt something that can be useful to see before going long for a quick pop?
 
Well you know, I'm not making any claims. I'm making my living by trading US Equities for a prop firm and just posting my experiences here.

So you can take that together with the stuff s0mmi wrote, or you just go ahead and make your own experiences. If you don't believe it, that's fine for me.

I just suggested you have a look at it and make your own experiences instead of pulling nonsense out of your a$$. If you don't want to do that, it's fine for me either...less competition and more money for me ;)
 
Maybe @Maverick74 can chime in here but it is not all there "in the times and sales" something I walked you through in much detail.

I made my point, we may have to leave it at that and agree to disagree.

grahamglover said:
But that isn't the point. It's all there in the time and sales if you wanted to just use that. How much is trading at these prices, is size having effect on liquidity, is it a large volume day or slow, are buyers or sellers more aggressive now vs previously, and can they take the bid / lift the offer and stick it...is this a good price to lean on for a few ticks given all these factors. Get good at making those determinations from the tape and there is your edge.
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that "nonsense out of my ass" is what I derived from trading for more than 15 years at banks and hedge funds. I do not claim to know it all but what I know I backed up with examples, facts and figures.

MrMuppet said:
Well you know, I'm not making any claims. I'm making my living by trading US Equities for a prop firm and just posting my experiences here.

So you can take that together with the stuff s0mmi wrote, or you just go ahead and make your own experiences. If you don't believe it, that's fine for me.

I just suggested you have a look at it and make your own experiences instead of pulling nonsense out of your a$$. If you don't want to do that, it's fine for me either...less competition and more money for me ;)
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Zzzz1 said:
that "nonsense out of my ass" is what I derived from trading for more than 15 years at banks and hedge funds. I do not claim to know it all but what I know I backed up with examples, facts and figures.
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Well, you are the prey then :D :D

I think it's better at this point that we agree to disagree. No need to educate the other side IMO
 
The tape reflects the now. (ie what has happened since you put on your trade, and how prices are moving against or with, or just chopping at idle. The faster the tape moves, the more participants, from different exchanges all reveal patterns that should influence your position. HFT, retail, and me all have to buy(time and sale) which will provide info to other participants about market forces. (The guys who were trading SP's minis and every time a 100 lot came in bought a couple ahead no longer exist, but when the T&S print that say a certain stock just pierced a major resistance, that is good info to know if you are long futures.
 
make sense of the randomness. time and sales vs your market will shed light if you can recognize patterns. or don't so you leave more edge for me
 
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