Sort of like is it probable that life exists somewhere else in the universe? Well many, such as Carl Sagan, say yes and think its pure egocentricity at its best to believe anything else. Now, will it ever be proven, most probably not in my lifetime and with all the information given to me I "know" I only have one of those..........lifetimes that is.
Laurence J. Kotlikoff We are Bankrupt
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Sort of like is it probable that life exists somewhere else in the universe? Well many, such as Carl Sagan, say yes and think its pure egocentricity at its best to believe anything else. Now, will it ever be proven, most probably not in my lifetime and with all the information given to me I "know" I only have one of those..........lifetimes that is.
Quote from Algorithm:
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some of this thread's participants would be well served picking up an economics 101 book. Take it further by saying that dollar devaluation is a good thing and necessary for balancing trade deficits. The countries that send us boatloads of goods for our paper currency (which from a good number on this thread consider nothing but painted toilet tissue) is a GREAT THING as long as they will do it. But, one day they will wake up and stop doing so as their wealth rises and eventually turn and start buying more U.S. goods. I also laugh at those here that have proposed "America produces nothing". Services, information and ideas are not "sterile" products/commodities as many here stunningly have assumed.
Read " The Wealth of Nations" by Smith for starters then progress to some David Ricardo after that. Good places to start for those "new" to economics and interested. I'm surprised at how many on these boards subscribe to notions that are nothing more than "black helicopters circling" and yet supposedly trade in capital markets. Economically speaking, actually many Marxist notions circulating, but stating that directly would brand me as nothing more than an neocon alarmist (now that's worth a chuckle).
You are right, we should just all become daytraders, brokers, salesmen & consultants. Because that's true wealth, when you just move money around and pick up commissions. Hey, maybe that's the master plan, keep printing dollars, move them around and pretend that we have a thriving economy. Pure genius.
And a low currency is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered. What's the point of even having a strong currency? Inflation is GOOD, just look at Argentina. What about England, I think that's a prime example of how awesome it is when your currency loses 75% of its value.
I don't disregard economics but I also see how much of it is hypotherical BS that completely disregards what goes on in the real world. A good analogy to the US situation is looking at the average NYC yuppie that in order to keep up with his lifestyle keeps overextending himself into CC debt. It's all good cause even though the debt load keeps growing, his lifestyle gets him networking points, hence increasing his income, allowing him to keep up with the debt interest and the growing lifestyle demands. And the wheel keeps turning round and round, right?
Find me one such individual who has been able to keep that game going for 10 years and then I will believe that US can keep it going for another 30 years.
P.S. At least read the article also, it makes great points. US is not bankrupt but it's on the road to do so judging from its current policies.
Yeah, all those consulting companies and divisions of companies such as IBM don't make money either. You are a fool if you are equating wealth/prosperity and economic strength with the amount of material resources consumed, manipulated and sold.
You also fail to take into account the multifaceted/dynamic aspects of human capital.
You also fail to take into account the multifaceted/dynamic aspects of human capital.
Algorithm, you seem to be caught up in an "intllectual daze". You've been spoonfed alot of misdirection and propaganda all your life and now appear to be one of the main cheerleaders.
The US dollar is a fiat currency. All fiat currencies have failed in the past, some with disastrous results. Why do they fail? That's been clearly outlined already in this thread.
Earlier you referenced "Wealth of Nations". Why? So we can read about Adam Smith's interpretation of free market society and economics? My friend, there are many glaring flaws in Smith's work. Flaws that are now evident in our society, only they are not flaws, but real people enduring real suffering. Consder that everything in our economy is produced by working class people while they receive only a small portion of the utility. The capitalists, investors, and "bosses" monopolize the bulk of the ecnomic value. An objective, sentient being would observe this and label it "unfair".
The US has recently been revealed as a country LOW ON THE LIST amongst nations that provide access to upward mobility. Wait! What about the American Dream? What about freedom and capitalism?? Maybe it has to do with the status quo of the ruling elite who govern the country and ensure that the power stays in the hands of a few, as will the spoils.
Soon after the Iraqi invasion, a young Republican was speaking to senior Iraqi civilian leaders and "lecturing" them on democracy and politics. He said "a political party is a way to channel power. Once you've established and centralized this power you can do what you want with government." I didn't highlight this quote b/c it's profoundm, but because its indicative of the nature of US politics. Or should I rather say the nature of a capitalist political regime? Does it matter? They are one and the same.
One related aside that I would ask you to consider seriously (meaning actually THINK about it). Has it ever puzzled you that "our nations forefathers" left a great many writings about moral responsibility, freedom, liberty and justice for all. Meanwhile, the genocide of the Natives was winding down and the African slave trade was in full swing. Hmmm... sort of a contradiction wouldn't you say? I'm not saying we should stop revering Ben franklin. But I am saying you should see things for what they are, and not for what YOU or SOMEONE ELSE would like them to be.. or for what they APPEAR to be for that matter. You're a trader, isn't this supposed to be a skill that you should be developing?
Enough politicizing. A fiat currency is based on the creditworthiness of its government. The dollar is based on the creditworthiness of the US government. However. The US government has amassed a national debt in the $Trillions and regularly amsses annual debts WELL into the $Billions. The result? International reserves (i.e. China, Japan) that are OVERLOADED with $Dollars (China reserves hold ~$Trillion USD. That's a big number) and MUST continue to accept more and more dollars as payment for real goods produced within their own ecnomies. But these dollars are depreciating, which means the reserves of the exporting country are depreciating (see China and its $Trillion USD reserves), which means they need to demand more dollars for payment of the same goods, which means the US has to "print" more dollars.. see where this is going? Didn't think so. You said the "deficit is good". You also had the nerve to call someone else a fool.
You are the fool.
The deficit is unsustainable and will be one of the main causes of the inability of the financial watchdogs (Fed, et al) to prop up our economy going forward. Not only that, but it puts the dollar at serious risk. Very serious risk.
You need to go back and read Wealth of Nations again. Then, read the Cliff Notes. Then read Marx and try to pickup on the on the similarities between their views, and not just the contrasting mechanics of their respective Capitalist and Socialist observations. Here, let me help you get started. Below is an excerpt from Wealth of Nations. I'm sure you've very familiar. Here Smith details the foundation of the relationship between the worker and the boss which today can be broadly applied to any multi-class relationship in our modern times. Since empires never last forever, something will eventually topple the American Empire. Of course, none will realize that it may have been doomed from the start b/c of ideas and "realities" such as the below...
It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine much more easily; and the law, besides, authorizes, or at least does not prohibit their combinations, while it prohibits those of the workmen. We have no acts of parliament against combining to lower the price of work; but many against combining to raise it. In all such disputes the masters can hold out much longer. A landlord, a farmer, a master manufacturer, a merchant, though they did not employ a single workman, could generally live a year or two upon the stocks which they have already acquired. Many workmen could not subsist a week, few could subsist a month, and scarce any a year without employment. In the long run the workman may be as necessary to his master as his master is to him; but the necessity is not so immediate.
No, I use common sense.
Country A makes some vital consumer good, Country B sells ideas, consulting & financial services. They keep trade, and Country B is the "wealthy and prosperous" nation. After 20 years, Country A does not want Country B's products and diminishes trade. Guess which country will simply suffer from overcapacity and which will be in shambles.
I am not upstaris, but I can help you...
Since"all" other fiat currencies have failed, could you tell us if there were common denominators happening in their economies before they capitulated and how these respective economies recovered?
Great post btw......
Since"all" other fiat currencies have failed, could you tell us if there were common denominators happening in their economies before they capitulated and how these respective economies recovered?
Great post btw......
Quote from EdgeHunter:
i wish somebody upstaris would let me know
cj...
__________________
Quote from optionpro007:
I am not upstaris, but I can help you...
Since"all" other fiat currencies have failed, could you tell us if there were common denominators happening in their economies before they capitulated and how these respective economies recovered?
Great post btw......
I'll take a stab at that. Argentina and Brazil had hyper inflation and then rapid devaluation of their currencies, no? Please correct me, without flaming, if I am wrong.
I don't know if you are referring to me, but please excuse me if I ever flamed you before...
If I am not mistaken on your identity I have always found your posts well positioned and thought out.
You are right. many currencies have fallen apart around the world during the last 50 years.
If the answer is hyper inflation, what came before hyper inflation ?
Whatever it was, we may not be too far from it...
***********read it in an article today....
"Ah, the joys of capitalism. No matter how bad it gets, someone will always profit."
Cheers !!
If I am not mistaken on your identity I have always found your posts well positioned and thought out.
You are right. many currencies have fallen apart around the world during the last 50 years.
If the answer is hyper inflation, what came before hyper inflation ?
Whatever it was, we may not be too far from it...
***********read it in an article today....
"Ah, the joys of capitalism. No matter how bad it gets, someone will always profit."
Cheers !!
Quote from optionpro007:
I don't know if you are referring to me, but please excuse me if I ever flamed you before...
If I am not mistaken on your identity I have always found your posts well positioned and thought out.
You are right. many currencies have fallen apart around the world during the last 50 years.
If the answer is hyper inflation, what came before hyper inflation ?
Whatever it was, we may not be too far from it...
***********read it in an article today....
"Ah, the joys of capitalism. No matter how bad it gets, someone will always profit."
Cheers !!
No worries, not you specifically just some on this board with their holier than now attitudes and condescending tone of posts.
I wish I was interested in econ when in school. I have some catching up to do!