Kudos to MMs

johnnyqpublic,

Quote from johnnyqpublic:

Nitro, I obviously am not privy to *FV internals, but I have something to relate from my experience. Partially motivated to the success I saw in NFV, I have done my own research over the past few months and I have found another financial time series which displays dependable predictive activity for SPX. That is to say, if this instrument moves and SPX does not, SPX tends to follow in the next short while. Could take half an hour, or a few days, to converge.
Right. That is not quite my purpose. You are trying to find predictive instruments you can trade against. I am building a model, and some of the inputs could be the number of sunspots at this given moment. Not quite the same thing...

Actually, I should note that I have found several instruments such as this, however the one I am talking about is the only one that still exhibits this behavior.
Sure, that is not surprising to me. I am not a big fan of pairs unless the relationship is very strong. I find that when things go bad, you are left with two losing positions, not just one as in my case. You also incur twice the commissions and twice the slippage.

That is important because I express the relationship in arbitrage, or pairs trading, terms, and thus structure my trades (so far automated, on paper) to follow. Thus I am either exposed long to SPX, and short the other instrument, or vice versa. I generally lose money on the other instrument, but net money overall, and in the rare event that SPX is the predictor, I am protected.
Most professional traders trade this way. Where we may disagree is in the instruments. For example, it could T-Bills against Eurodollars, or one end of the curve against another, or perhaps the SPY against the ES, or basis trading, etc, etc. This is more arbitrage than pairs. I am not a huge fan of pairs because it is a game that in my experience is extremely efficient these days. That doesn't mean it can't work.

I mentioned that I only have one instrument with which this still works. Were I trading this system with one that doesn't, you can imagine that I would get erroneous results in regard to divergences, and probably lose money on a regular basis.

I have seen the other instruments break down in their ability to work in this system. The correlations no longer hold. So my point is, I don't know what mathematical principles *FV relies upon, but if in the end they imply some sort of correlation amongst various price instruments, perhaps those correlations have simply broken down?
Ok, here is the real reason I couldn't respond earlier, and where I am going to more or less agree with you, but perhaps for reasons that are not apparent at first.

Let me back up. There is a theorem that a one or two dimensional random walk will visit any particular point infinitely many times if there is an infinite number of trials. The one dimensional case is called the Gamblers Ruin. So one dimensional games like this are poor betting games since your probability of returning to the origin (blowing out) is 100%. The two dimensional case has similar structure. However, in dimension n >=3, there is no certainty, and in fact the probability of returning to the origin decreases as the number of dimensions increases. In three dimensions however, the probability decreases to ~34%!!

This theory lends credence to taking action so that the number of degrees of freedom is at least three. Degree of freedom is the way mathematicians/scientists think of "dimension". Therefore, just from a mathematical point of view, trading at least three instruments against each other probably greatly reduces the odds of blowing out an account on the above argument. People that use a time series to predict the very time series are trading a random walk on a one dimensional line, no matter how many indicators you put on that time series!

NFV has way more than three inputs, and while I don't trade the other instruments against NFV (if I had a model for at least two of those that were predictive it would make sense and there are some inputs that have no trade-able counterpart), I still feel that I am not trading a one dimensional random walk.

To answer your last suggestion, of course inputs can become more or less "expressed". What you want is a theory of when. Some people use matching pursuits to model this sort of behavior. In the absence of a theory, the modeler has to shift his weightings accordingly. I have not done that because I feel it is intellectually dishonest. But if I had a mathematical way that did it for me, I would have no qualms about it. Me having to intervene and change the weightings manually may work, but then I won't be able to back test anything and all trading becomes live forward testing. Genetic weighting could work, but that seems too "curve fit" to me.

Maybe that is the real courage of the successful trader - not be afraid to change gears and realize that in today's markets, it is all forward live testing.
 
just to let you know your detailed response to Johnnyqpublic is appreciated. I now have a much better understanding of what you are doing.
 
Quote from piezoe:

just to let you know your detailed response to Johnnyqpublic is appreciated. I now have a much better understanding of what you are doing.

I second this. Thanks for the response, nitro!
 
NFV 1090.91. ANFV 1130.11. SPX 1179.44.

NFV appears to be stable at these levels. So far away from the market that even if SPX dropped 40 and NFV stayed still, I would only be able to take 70 and 60 unit profits. SPX could drop to 1142 and still be "safe."

On the ANFV front, it has been very agile and it has collapsed hard recently, leading this price action in direction, but not magnitude.
 
You know, I have thought about this for a long time, looking under every nook and cranny for explanations, and I have come to one conclusion. Sometimes the only predictor of a market is itself. This can happen when there is chatter like QE2 and other government talk that while does not get actually implemented, the market believes will take place anyway. In fact, the government hopes that the market does it's job for it instead of having to shove it down its throat. Other times the government is sending up a test balloon.

The question becomes, how on earth do you model something that is not quantitative? Further, markets have a tendency to overshoot. How do you decide how much of something that has no tangible value has overshot?

I don't know the answers to these questions, but if I did, all it would change is the chain widths so that I would still be playing for convergence, but I would be doing it more conservatively on certain types of momentum. Using VIX, or at least traditional VIX does not appear to resolve the problem when the market is melting up, although it does when the market is melting down.

Anyway, I feel that NFV and particularly ANFV is very close to being "true", but this particular problem and the best way to model important "future news" is nagging at me.
 
NFV 1088.21. ANFV 1125.87. SPX 1,172.83

Mild support 1172. Hyperactive traders may take some profits here, only to short the bounce again. The risk is chasing a runaway down market when sitting still was the best course to capture the downside.

ANFV is imploding.
 
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