Kim Klaiman's Steady Options

[Pilot550]

Good to know and thank you for your feedback.

May I ask are you profitable trading Kim's method?

Sure.

Joined in mid-June. First trade taken was on June 19, so results to date are for ~1.5 months.

Total number of trades taken: 20
Average duration: 9 days.
Winners: 12
Losers: 8
Average win: ~18.5% of allocated funds
Average loss: ~12.5% of allocated funds
Overall average return: ~4.7% of allocated funds
Return in $: Well above 10x the fee paid to date.

A couple points on the above.

Losers were typically small with the largest loss being about 20% of allocation. Winners also typically small, but with several larger wins (single largest accounts for ~30% of net profits). Sample size is still too small to draw any definitive conclusions but I like that there's been a positive return without it requiring an inordinately high ratio of winners to losers.

I also like that the overall daily return distribution shows positive skewness which helps offset my other trades which have more of a negative skewness to their daily return distributions.

There is a reasonable amount of effort required to set up and follow the trades properly. If you expect to just get and follow trade alerts without doing the prep work you may be disappointed with your results. Quick fills at the same prices as shown on the trade alerts generally don't happen as those following the service tend to bid up the trade somewhat in the hours following an alert. I found that by by just sticking with my limit price for the trade I was eventually filled on ~70% of the trades given.

Hope this provides some insight and answers some of the OP's questions.

 

[ironchef]

Sure.

Joined in mid-June. First trade taken was on June 19, so results to date are for ~1.5 months.

Total number of trades taken: 20
Average duration: 9 days.
Winners: 12
Losers: 8
Average win: ~18.5% of allocated funds
Average loss: ~12.5% of allocated funds
Overall average return: ~4.7% of allocated funds
Return in $: Well above 10x the fee paid to date.

A couple points on the above.

Losers were typically small with the largest loss being about 20% of allocation. Winners also typically small, but with several larger wins (single largest accounts for ~30% of net profits). Sample size is still too small to draw any definitive conclusions but I like that there's been a positive return without it requiring an inordinately high ratio of winners to losers.

I also like that the overall daily return distribution shows positive skewness which helps offset my other trades which have more of a negative skewness to their daily return distributions.

There is a reasonable amount of effort required to set up and follow the trades properly. If you expect to just get and follow trade alerts without doing the prep work you may be disappointed with your results. Quick fills at the same prices as shown on the trade alerts generally don't happen as those following the service tend to bid up the trade somewhat in the hours following an alert. I found that by by just sticking with my limit price for the trade I was eventually filled on ~70% of the trades given.

Hope this provides some insight and answers some of the OP's questions.

Thank you, I appreciate your answers.

 

[jtrader33]

Quick fills at the same prices as shown on the trade alerts generally don't happen as those following the service tend to bid up the trade somewhat in the hours following an alert. I found that by by just sticking with my limit price for the trade I was eventually filled on ~70% of the trades given.

If you think of it and want to come back here to update, I bet a lot of people would like to know how your entries fare long term. That's 70% fill rate has to have some embedded adverse selection, so it would be interesting to know to what degree.

 

[Pilot550]

If you think of it and want to come back here to update, I bet a lot of people would like to know how your entries fare long term. That's 70% fill rate has to have some embedded adverse selection, so it would be interesting to know to what degree.

Yup, I'm sure it does, and I'd hesitate to draw any firm conclusions from my results to date. That said, those who prefer to be pro-active and lead official trade calls can find the tools and discussion readily at hand to allow them to do that, so much of the adverse selection is a function of wanting an "official" confirmation before deciding to put money on the line.

 

[Adam777]

Quick fills at the same prices as shown on the trade alerts generally don't happen as those following the service tend to bid up the trade somewhat in the hours following an alert. I found that by by just sticking with my limit price for the trade I was eventually filled on ~70% of the trades given.

Thanks for the feedback!

Is the Limit order at mid for the bid/ask; or is it limit order sitting on the bid or ask?

Also is my math correct:

20 trades x ($1000 allocated/trade) x (return@ 4.7%/trade) = $940 for the 1.5months = $627/month = $7519/year

($7519/year)/($20000allocated for trades)=37.5%pa

Model portfolio I believe is 60% trade capital and 40% cash on the Steady Options website, so:

37.5%pa x 60% = 22.6%pa return on the total account

 

[Kim Klaiman]

Also is my math correct:

20 trades x ($1000 allocated/trade) x (return@ 4.7%/trade) = $940 for the 1.5months = $627/month = $7519/year

($7519/year)/($20000allocated for trades)=37.5%pa

Model portfolio I believe is 60% trade capital and 40% cash on the Steady Options website, so:

37.5%pa x 60% = 22.6%pa return on the total account

Your math is correct up to $7519/year.

That's 75% return on 10k account.

The second part is not correct because not all trades are open at the same time, so it is not 20000 allocated for trades. Typical allocation is around 5-6k, or 5-6 positions. New positions are opened only to replace the previous ones, not on top of them.

 

[Pilot550]

Thanks for the feedback!

Is the Limit order at mid for the bid/ask; or is it limit order sitting on the bid or ask?

Also is my math correct:

20 trades x ($1000 allocated/trade) x (return@ 4.7%/trade) = $940 for the 1.5months = $627/month = $7519/year

($7519/year)/($20000allocated for trades)=37.5%pa

Model portfolio I believe is 60% trade capital and 40% cash on the Steady Options website, so:

37.5%pa x 60% = 22.6%pa return on the total account

I imagine your math is correct, but my math was not that precise.

Some of the trades involved only taking up a 1/2 position, and also, as I'm running at a number of multiples versus the model portfolio the actual size of positions is not always the same proportionately as in the model. For example a trade requiring $750 would be 1 unit in size if $1000 was available to allocate to it. But if you were running at 5x the model you could allocate $5,000 to the trade which means your size would be 6 units x $750 = $4500 instead of 5. Arguably you might also choose 7 units to be closer to the target allocation if you are not completely rigid on never exceeding the chosen allocation size for each trade.

Also, the overall return %'s would change substantially if you removed either the biggest winner or the biggest loser so I wouldn't draw too many inferences from the percentages on these trades other than that's what I've experienced over a small sample. And, as Kim indicated above at any given time I had ~4-6 trades on, so the total dollar value I made available to this portfolio was never fully allocated.

 

[ffs1001]

Just found this thread. I used to be a Steady Options subscriber, but didn't renew my annual member this time around - not because there is anything wrong with SO or what Kim provides, but more a case of my own changing needs. Here are my opinions :

- I feel SO is very transparent and realistic (no BS, no sales pitch, no fake promises, and no false hope given to newbies)
- all trade ideas are mentioned beforehand so subscribers have time to enter their own orders before the official trade is opened - recommendation is given as to what would be a good price, etc
- the most sensitive issue is getting the same fills as the official trade; but with time,
practice and PATIENCE, traders can actually get better fills.
- there are lots of trading opportunities - new trades about to enter, potentials coming up in the next few days/weeks etc, so no chance of getting bored waiting.
- wonderful forum and "community" - to me, this was the best part. Simply receiving a trade
alert would do little for me, but the daily banter of others mentioning what prices they filled
at, giving little tips and hints along the way was wonderful. One chappie (Yowster) is worth
his weight in gold with the gems he posts. I learnt so much from him.
- the reason I didn't renew was because SO is not scalable enough for me. This is not a
criticism at all, as Kim mentioned somewhere that it not recommended for account sizes
larger than $100K. By the end I was allocating £120K to SO, and the comms were really
mounting up. I think it works really well for account sizes around $30-$60K.
- For someone trading with $10K, the subscription fees would be quite large.
- the best thing I learnt was risk management, position sizing and being methodical (as
opposed to being impulsive)
- my monthly returns for my last 6 months of trading SO were as follows :
Mar '18 -1.7%
Apr '18 +16.9%
May '18 +5.0%
Jun '18 +10.8%
Jul '18 +12.9%
Aug '18 +1.8%


My overall experience of SO was a very positive one.

Make of this information what you will.

 

[tommcginnis]

Just found this thread. I used to be a Steady Options subscriber, but didn't renew my annual member this time around - not because there is anything wrong with SO or what Kim provides, but more a case of my own changing needs. Here are my opinions :

My overall experience of SO was a very positive one.

Make of this information what you will.

Reasonableness will get you nowhere.

 

[Robert Morse]

Just found this thread. I used to be a Steady Options subscriber, but didn't renew my annual member this time around - not because there is anything wrong with SO or what Kim provides, but more a case of my own changing needs. Here are my opinions :

- I feel SO is very transparent and realistic (no BS, no sales pitch, no fake promises, and no false hope given to newbies)
- all trade ideas are mentioned beforehand so subscribers have time to enter their own orders before the official trade is opened - recommendation is given as to what would be a good price, etc
- the most sensitive issue is getting the same fills as the official trade; but with time,
practice and PATIENCE, traders can actually get better fills.
- there are lots of trading opportunities - new trades about to enter, potentials coming up in the next few days/weeks etc, so no chance of getting bored waiting.
- wonderful forum and "community" - to me, this was the best part. Simply receiving a trade
alert would do little for me, but the daily banter of others mentioning what prices they filled
at, giving little tips and hints along the way was wonderful. One chappie (Yowster) is worth
his weight in gold with the gems he posts. I learnt so much from him.
- the reason I didn't renew was because SO is not scalable enough for me. This is not a
criticism at all, as Kim mentioned somewhere that it not recommended for account sizes
larger than $100K. By the end I was allocating £120K to SO, and the comms were really
mounting up. I think it works really well for account sizes around $30-$60K.
- For someone trading with $10K, the subscription fees would be quite large.
- the best thing I learnt was risk management, position sizing and being methodical (as
opposed to being impulsive)
- my monthly returns for my last 6 months of trading SO were as follows :
Mar '18 -1.7%
Apr '18 +16.9%
May '18 +5.0%
Jun '18 +10.8%
Jul '18 +12.9%
Aug '18 +1.8%


My overall experience of SO was a very positive one.

Make of this information what you will.

This would be my concern. You said"SO is not scalable enough for me. This is not a criticism at all, as Kim mentioned somewhere that it not recommended for account sizes larger than $100K.'

Mentoring programs like theirs have >5000 students. If they all get the same signal and 10% do the same trade, that can be hard to find liquidity as 500 traders enter the same order. This is no different than any other program that does the same so I'm not just referring to just them.

Bob