Just realized we wasted money fighting cold war

[canyonman00]

Quote from ellokn:

What goes around comes around.

Of course the rejection of the port deals may be wrong, ignorant and short-sighted. It is the result of a political climate the Administration cultivated and benefited from. What did Bush think?

I honestly don't think they thought about this at all. I think we are all viewing too many things through the prism of hindsight today. Everything has become a discussion of, "If you had the ability to do it again..."

Or, "Now that that has happened, why was it allowed?" It's sort of like coming up to the scene of an accident and asking the person why they ran a light and plowed into the side of the other vehicle? Clearly the red light was not enough to get the job done. And clearly the person intended to not play by the rules.

There wasn't much the party who got hit could do, other than get hit. In today's climate, we would be questioning that individuals competency as to why they didn't see the other person running the light and get out of the way.

 

[harrytrader]

Quote from ellokn:

What goes around comes around.

This Administration built and played upon a climate of fear. distrust and ignorant of anything "foreign" especially anything Arab.

What a joke : only a facade. The Bush Family and the CIA have been allied with Arabs Elites since long:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/09/1526251


We're talking to John Perkins. In your book, you talk about how you helped to implement a secret scheme that funneled billions of dollars of Saudi Arabian petrol dollars back into the U.S. economy, and that further cemented the intimate relationship between the House of Saud and successive U.S. administrations.

AMY GOODMAN: You're actually called economic hit men --e.h.m.’s?

JOHN PERKINS: Yeah, it was a tongue-in-cheek term that we called ourselves. Officially, I was a chief economist. We called ourselves e.h.m.'s. It was tongue-in-cheek. It was like, nobody will believe us if we say this, you know? And, so, we went to Saudi Arabia in the early seventies. We knew Saudi Arabia was the key to dropping our dependency, or to controlling the situation. And we worked out this deal whereby the Royal House of Saud agreed to send most of their petro-dollars back to the United States and invest them in U.S. government securities. The Treasury Department would use the interest from these securities to hire U.S. companies to build Saudi Arabia–new cities, new infrastructure–which we’ve done. And the House of Saud would agree to maintain the price of oil within acceptable limits to us, which they’ve done all of these years, and we would agree to keep the House of Saud in power as long as they did this, which we’ve done, which is one of the reasons we went to war with Iraq in the first place. And in Iraq we tried to implement the same policy that was so successful in Saudi Arabia, but Saddam Hussein didn't buy. When the economic hit men fail in this scenario, the next step is what we call the jackals. Jackals are C.I.A.-sanctioned people that come in and try to foment a coup or revolution. If that doesn't work, they perform assassinations.

 

[canyonman00]

Quote from harrytrader:

What a joke : only a facade. The Bush Family and the CIA have been allied with Arabs Elites since long:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/09/1526251

Based on this scenario, what is Clinton now doing in Dubai then? We know there has to be a motive, fiscal or otherwise. What is he offering to do or to make sure of when Hillary becomes President? Or is he just over there saying America is corrupt, just because he can?

 

[ellokn]

Quote from canyonman00:

Based on this scenario, what is Clinton now doing in Dubai then? We know there has to be a motive, fiscal or otherwise. What is he offering to do or to make sure of when Hillary becomes President? Or is he just over there saying America is corrupt, just because he can?

Well, this has nothing to do with a Bill or a George or party politics. It is way beyond that. (Ugly fear mongering to the ignornat, however, was a campaing feature of the "new" republican party as the current cast of players have little to do with the traditional Republican party.)

As for Perkin's explaination of economic hit men and the "real" role of the world bank (his book is an interesting one) this is not a new game and the US is not the only one playing it.

That is why Germany and France were so worried about the Iraq invasion: their own economic hit men had succfully made billions in loans to Iraq and were being rewarded with huge infrastructure contracts. They were worried about not getting their money back.

I guess the US was left out of this important game and did not have accesss to Iraqi oil wealth, as even Rumsfeld admitted in an early news conference. Thus the invasion in the name of spreading Democracy.

Napoleon said something similar (the need to spread civilization and the rule of Napoleonic law) on his march to Moscow.

 

[canyonman00]

Quote from ellokn:

...this is not a new game and the US is not the only one playing it.

That is why Germany and France were so worried about the Iraq invasion: their own economic hit men had succfully made billions in loans to Iraq and were being rewarded with huge infrastructure contracts. They were worried about not getting their money back.

These points are true. Or should I say, as best we can see/guess. But I would still say that they and/or certain interests must be there on the profit side of the game just as in Germany and France.

 

[andrasnm]

That is right I don't much like any of that! Well, do you? Do you like our job scenario or foreign trade imbalance? Much of the US workforce is perceived as useless and undoubtedly there is some element of truth to that! We have high school graduates who cannot read and write in English let alone a foreign language on the top of that we have needs and expectations out of this world. No sane patriotic American would like the selling and dumbing down this nation especially to the proportions we have gotten by now. It is neglect and criminal stupidity what raw uncontrolled Capitalism has gotten the US into. Next China will manage the Pentagon as they can do it real cheap! Right?
The problem is that the average "American Joe" is not counted anymore. US citizenship isn't worth SHIT!
We only manufacture bad movies and greenbacks now.

Quote from canyonman00:

You can't be serious. Are you aware of how many goods and services that you come into contact with daily that are exported? Are you even aware how many companies here that are foreign owned/controlled? I'd guess not from your comments. And it's reciprocal. You can't really say American companies can't have interest abroad either.

Does it concern you that British Petroleum (BP) has stations dotting our countryside? Or maybe they don't concern you much because they are genetically ok? I'll be nice because no one is a racist here. Even though the attitude permeates through many of the discussions.

Nissan, go home! Toyota, pack up and boogie! Mercedes, isn't that a Chrysler product? Jaguar's are Ford products, I think. Where are most TV's made again? If it ain't here, toast! Airbus can't land here anymore because they could be hoarding terror. Intel, they make chips in uh, hmm???

I have no problem with this need to increase security. But not with fear as the director of operations. And definitely not as a political/media football. Neither of those entities could find this goal line if they had to.

And woe unto those who would believe the masses are informed enough to be able to do anything other than basically panic. IMHO!!!

 

[StacyTrader1]

You JUST realized that???

 

[canyonman00]

Quote from andrasnm:

That is right I don't much like any of that! Well, do you? Do you like our job scenario or foreign trade imbalance? Much of the US workforce is perceived as useless and undoubtedly there is some element of truth to that! We have high school graduates who cannot read and write in English let alone a foreign language on the top of that we have needs and expectations out of this world. No sane patriotic American would like the selling and dumbing down this nation especially to the proportions we have gotten by now. It is neglect and criminal stupidity what raw uncontrolled Capitalism has gotten the US into. Next China will control the Pentagon as they can do it real cheap! Right?
The problem is that the average "American Joe" is not counted anymore. US citizenship isn't worth SHIT!

I think we are going to have to get away from using trade as a monitor in its current understanding. Too much stuff is cross connected and requiring imports to get a realistic gauge of where we actually are. What the workforce needs to come to grips with is that they need to undertake a gross retraining effort. There are several things that this country needs to address that won't and can't be imported. Things like expansion and renovation of the country infrastructure. Technosizing America!

I think we can start to lay out our country to address the energy issue more completely. Embracing the new demands of the public. Could be fun!

We have several great opportunities to hit the next level of computerized manufacturing and make it very difficult for the companies to head overseas from an economical basis. Maybe with the design of new computerized manufacturing facilities with fewer employees that makes even higher quality, higher tech items. Items that then don't need to be imported back. While that might upset the union types, it's what MUST happen for this country to compete nationally. Then globally!

Structuring all of this with the thought of massive implementation and integration in the next ten years. Just about the time that these cheap economic locales start to unionize. I can hear those "high paying foreign manufacturing union jobs" sucking away back to America already!

 

[andrasnm]

I suppose you are referring to my post?
No - for your information I am a citizen of the EU as well. I am greatful to America and the people of this country who allowed me to live here and became a citizen. Since someone asked me these questions I am answering it straight. Several years ago I asked for my second passport and even before that I knew the US was shit out of luck in many ways. It however things have accelerated and got worse in the last 5 years under the plutocratic fascist corporate rule of the oil president and much resources were pissed away for a useless and unwinnable war in Iraq. I owe the simple and good people of the USA to set the record straight and voice my ideas and solutions - it is not for my benefit.

Quote from StacyTrader1:

You JUST realized that???

 

[TorontoTrader2]

"Just realized we wasted money fighting cold war "

Yes, your tax dollars made the arms dealers rich. And it's happening again now. Sucka!